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Question - premium plugins VS KA11 (1 Viewer)

Joined
Nov 30, 2019
RedCents
232¢
Hello Frens,

I am wondering about MQ2Berzerker, MQ2Cleric and so on. I am currently using KA11 with a bard, warrior, cleric, mage, berzerker. So I have watched Sic's videos on the matter and I was thinking about getting them. However, they are paid premium plugins and to get warrior, cleric and berzerker is about the same as all my eq accounts each month. So to the question.... Why buy these premium plugins ? Are they better then KA11 ? I am leaning towards getting them I just dont want to buy them and wind up not using them because the differences between the two and not significant enough. Any thoughts would be appreciated as they may aleive my indecision.
 

freeferli

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 3, 2019
RedCents
431¢
I believe that you can ask Chat for a trial of these plugins, for one month.
They are also Free on the test server, so you can copy to the test server, and play around with them all you want.
 

wymranar

I <3 SKs *kissy face*
Joined
Jun 16, 2019
RedCents
955¢
I would buy the BER plugin for sure. I think that will give you the most improvement vs KA. Personally, I would drive the warrior with KA and mq2melee off, but that’s just me.

I think you can get the same or similar performance from the cleric using KA.

So,
BER - yes
CLR - no
WAR - maybe, personal preference

This is just my opinion that I’m basing off reading other users evaluations. I’m sure other people can chime in that believe in all of the plugins efficacy.
 
Joined
Nov 30, 2019
RedCents
232¢
I would buy the BER plugin for sure. I think that will give you the most improvement vs KA. Personally, I would drive the warrior with KA and mq2melee off, but that’s just me.

I think you can get the same or similar performance from the cleric using KA.

So,
BER - yes
CLR - no
WAR - maybe, personal preference

This is just my opinion that I’m basing off reading other users evaluations. I’m sure other people can chime in that believe in all of the plugins efficacy.
This was my thinking as well thanks much
 
Joined
Nov 30, 2019
RedCents
232¢
I believe that you can ask Chat for a trial of these plugins, for one month.
They are also Free on the test server, so you can copy to the test server, and play around with them all you want.
No, i am not going to ask for a trial but free on test server would let me try them out and I had not thought of this. Much appreciated.
 
Joined
May 6, 2020
RedCents
796¢
I use both KA and CWTN's plugins. The Berserker plugin is flawless and fantastic. Well worth the money, though I do not have a KA .ini to compare it to.

I have used KA for my cleric, and it works fantastic. However, I also paid for, and frequently use, the CWTN plugin for Clerics. It's powerful, and equally as capable as KA. I may be in a different boat, but for the price of the plugin, it's a no brainer for me to have both ready and available.
 
Joined
Nov 29, 2017
RedCents
722¢
I have bought Berz and War, I played around a lot with CLr and Bst when they were in developent.
- For my style, Berz is fantastic and much better than I can configure any .ini for my Berzerker, which I never had one until I saw DPS that was posted. I love the new Zerker I have and he has become a mainstay in my main group now (makes my necro very sad though to sit out of group /cry).

- For War, I use when I like to do send around Hunter style or a set camp with simple needs, it works very well, but on occassion I did have some return to camp issues. So i play him Manual or KA many times too. I still don;t think my .ini is as good as the War plugin.

-Bst felt very similar to me as Berz, did a WHOLE lot more than I had my .ini doing. I do not have this paid, due to finances and I don't use my Bst as much as I'd like

-Clr , I never had a lot of good luck with, to be fair it was still being worked on and I'm sure its a LOT better than when I tested. I am ok with my current .ini, so use KA

I have never tried @ChatWithThisName other plgins like Rog, EsKay Monk or the upcoming Ench but I beleive they work well for a lot of uses. If I could afford them all I woud likely get them all and use them the same way I do now, on for some things mixed or off at times.
 
Joined
Jul 24, 2019
RedCents
3,684¢
I am using Berzerker, Warrior, and Rogue Plugins and believe they are worth every cent. But when it comes to spellcasters - I find the flexibility of KA much better.
 
Joined
Nov 30, 2019
RedCents
232¢
I gave it a try on test. I decided to go and get the zerker and warrior plugin they are working out well so far. The berzerker plugin is pretty amazing it was well worth the 20 bucks, warrior plugin is less so but still worth buying. thanks all for the responses.
 

Zeeeeeee

Active member
Joined
Apr 14, 2015
RedCents
205¢
I am using Berzerker, Warrior, and Rogue Plugins and believe they are worth every cent. But when it comes to spellcasters - I find the flexibility of KA much better.
Does the rogue do a lot more dps on CWTN plugin? i was very sad of seeing his poor dps in groups
 
Joined
Jul 20, 2017
RedCents
54¢
I have used the Rogue one for a bit, and it does a great job with Dps. I also currently use Eskay, Monk, Cleric, Zerker, and Bst plug-ins. They are all worth the money that I have spent on them. I would, however, if you use more than one plug-in. I would advise watching Sic's moving my group around video and check out his hot-button section. It's most impressive and will make your life a little easier.
 

ChatWithThisName

⚔️🛡️🗡️
Moderator
Joined
Dec 29, 2017
RedCents
4,081¢
I use all of my plugins, and like them all, even the ones in development. ;)

Me and Sic are open to suggestions that are both feasible and that will likely be something that can be used to improve general content gameplay as well as trying to add some random features along the way.

While we do have plugins that are considered complete, it's always possible that there is room for improvements to them, and we do constantly add features to all of the plugins that fit for all classes to have them.

There are a few things that stand out as positives for the CWTN plugins as a whole, and aren't class restricted.
Examples:
Class windows - The windows have become a feature of the CWTN Plugins that a lot of people have really anchored to and voiced that they enjoy about the plugins.

Simplicity - The effort required to get started involves loading the plugin and changing your mode to one that suites your situation. But still has various things that can be added to allow minimal customization, suck as the Addclicky option for various types of clickies. There is no INI setup every time you upgrade an ability, we detect tome/spell scroll usage and update the spell lineups automatically.

Missing spells/abilities - I don't know of anything else currently that informs you when you're missing things you should have. All the CWTN plugins can output what you're missing that the plugin would use if you had it.

Support - For live servers we try to make corrections to errors in the code as soon as the error is identified, and if within reason try to push that out as soon as possible to limit the amount of time a user is inconvenienced.

PullArc - The PullArc for CWTN plugins is visible on the ingame map with layer 3 visible. The PullArc can be used for all pull modes, including hunter.

Circles - The circles for camp, pullradius, and pullability range are all shown on the map. The camp and pullradius circles are stationary, so they don't move when you do.

Target Locking - CWTN Plugins don't lock you to a specific target unless you have SwitchWithMA turned on. So once combat starts you can always click on another mob to begin attacking it instead of your current target. If you clear your target in assist mode, or turn off attack however it will check to see if there is a target it can assist the MA with and regain that as a target.

Breaking invis - CWTN Plugins are specifically designed not to break invis unless you have a camp set. So traveling with the plugins active will reduce the likely hood that you break invis. Note: MQ2Cleric won't heal people if they are invis and do not have a camp set. You'll want a /bcga //makemevisible hotkey.

Cost - If broken down to monthly cost, it's $1.67 ($20 / 12 rounded up 1 cent) per month per plugin. So a full group using 6 plugins is $10.00 ($120 / 12) a month. This would be assuming you were using one plugin for each character in the group and no two characters were the same class. If you're using what's available now you could get a Tank, a Healer, and 3 of the same class DPS for $5 (20 x 3 / 12) a month. Of course, there are more ideal group makeup's available. So let's look at SK/Clr/Enc/Bst/Zerk/Zerk once Enchanter is available that'd set you back $8.33 (20 x 5 / 12) a month.



There are some things that may make it so you'd prefer to use something else.
Examples:
Customization - There is pretty limited customization options when it comes to a lot of things. Combat routines can't be adjusted with the exception of some of the various "Toggles" available per class. Other than that, the order things are used, and in what situations they are used are hard coded. It's possible for what you want that you need another option to be made available to you, such as KA.

No - Sometimes I say no to adding things. When I originally created MQ2BerZerker (The first plugin in the series) I didn't foresee the plugins getting near the amount of options they have now. Sometimes I don't agree about a potential feature request and may say no to adding one requested. To some degree it's because I either feel that it's not necessary because you can achieve the result you're requesting through another method. Other times I feel it would cause more confusion than it would a benefit. This isn't always the case, there have been times I've said no to feature request, and later decided to add a feature due to popular demand. If you can articulate the need for a feature and it's reasonable to do so I'll get them added to the todo list. I still have 9 classes to go however, so keep in mind that it takes away from development time to add more features and new stuff adding to existing plugins can take time.

Money - It does cost money, and because of that, it tends to be the last option considered for some people. The cost may concern users when there are freely available macros that have a reasonable list of options available. This is one of the reasons I've decided to make it available on the test server. This gives users complete access to all of my plugins available on live to test to their hearts content, or use forever for free if they choose test as their home.


MQ2Melee - MQ2Melee has conflicting behavior with the CWTN Plugins. This applies to sticking and what abilities to use in what order. Those two conflicts were the bane of support threads early on and ultimately I felt it was necessary to simply prevent the plugin from being used while a CWTN plugin was active on a class for that plugin. So holy/down won't operate.

Campfire - It's on my todo list. But currently the plugin won't use Fellowship registration insignia to return to a campfire on a death.

Out of group - Characters won't assist out of group, with the exception that the cleric will heal from out of group using XTarget healing (can be toggled on and off). There is a raid mode however, that will assist the RaidAssist.


While I see that you've already made a purchase, I feel this thread might be useful for others considering it.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Nov 30, 2019
RedCents
232¢
I use all of my plugins, and like them all, even the ones in development. ;)

Me and Sic are open to suggestions that are both feasible and that will likely be something that can be used to improve general content gameplay as well as trying to add some random features along the way.

While we do have plugins that are considered complete, it's always possible that there is room for improvements to them, and we do constantly add features to all of the plugins that fit for all classes to have them.

There are a few things that stand out as positives for the CWTN plugins as a whole, and aren't class restricted.
Examples:
Class windows - The windows have become a feature of the CWTN Plugins that a lot of people have really anchored to and voiced that they enjoy about the plugins.

Simplicity - The effort required to get started involves loading the plugin and changing your mode to one that suites your situation. But still has various things that can be added to allow minimal customization, suck as the Addclicky option for various types of clickies. There is no INI setup every time you upgrade an ability, we detect tome/spell scroll usage and update the spell lineups automatically.

Missing spells/abilities - I don't know of anything else currently that informs you when you're missing things you should have. All the CWTN plugins can output what you're missing that the plugin would use if you had it.

Support - For live servers we try to make corrections to errors in the code as soon as the error is identified, and if within reason try to push that out as soon as possible to limit the amount of time a user is inconvenienced.

PullArc - The PullArc for CWTN plugins is visible on the ingame map with layer 3 visible. The PullArc can be used for all pull modes, including hunter.

Circles - The circles for camp, pullradius, and pullability range are all shown on the map. The camp and pullradius circles are stationary, so they don't move when you do.

Target Locking - CWTN Plugins don't lock you to a specific target unless you have SwitchWithMA turned on. So once combat starts you can always click on another mob to begin attacking it instead of your current target. If you clear your target in assist mode, or turn off attack however it will check to see if there is a target it can assist the MA with and regain that as a target.

Breaking invis - CWTN Plugins are specifically designed not to break invis unless you have a camp set. So traveling with the plugins active will reduce the likely hood that you break invis. Note: MQ2Cleric won't heal people if they are invis and do not have a camp set. You'll want a /bcga //makemevisible hotkey.

Cost - If broken down to monthly cost, it's $1.67 ($20 / 12 rounded up 1 cent) per month per plugin. So a full group using 6 plugins is $10.00 ($120 / 12) a month. This would be assuming you were using one plugin for each character in the group and no two characters were the same class. If you're using what's available now you could get a Tank, a Healer, and 3 of the same class DPS for $5 (20 x 3 / 12) a month. Of course, there are more ideal group makeup's available. So let's look at SK/Clr/Enc/Bst/Zerk/Zerk once Enchanter is available that'd set you back $8.33 (20 x 5 / 12) a month.



There are some things that may make it so you'd prefer to use something else.
Examples:
Customization - There is pretty limited customization options when it comes to a lot of things. Combat routines can't be adjusted with the exception of some of the various "Toggles" available per class. Other than that, the order things are used, and in what situations they are used are hard coded. It's possible for what you want that you need another option to be made available to you, such as KA.

No - Sometimes I say no to adding things. When I originally created MQ2BerZerker (The first plugin in the series) I didn't foresee the plugins getting near the amount of options they have now. Sometimes I don't agree about a potential feature request and may say no to adding one requested. To some degree it's because I either feel that it's not necessary because you can achieve the result you're requesting through another method. Other times I feel it would cause more confusion than it would a benefit. This isn't always the case, there have been times I've said no to feature request, and later decided to add a feature due to popular demand. If you can articulate the need for a feature and it's reasonable to do so I'll get them added to the todo list. I still have 9 classes to go however, so keep in mind that it takes away from development time to add more features and new stuff adding to existing plugins can take time.

Money - It does cost money, and because of that, it tends to be the last option considered for some people. The cost may concern users when there are freely available macros that have a reasonable list of options available. This is one of the reasons I've decided to make it available on the test server. This gives users complete access to all of my plugins available on live to test to their hearts content, or use forever for free if they choose test as their home.


MQ2Melee - MQ2Melee has conflicting behavior with the CWTN Plugins. This applies to sticking and what abilities to use in what order. Those two conflicts were the bane of support threads early on and ultimately I felt it was necessary to simply prevent the plugin from being used while a CWTN plugin was active on a class for that plugin. So holy/down won't operate.

Campfire - It's on my todo list. But currently the plugin won't use Fellowship registration insignia to return to a campfire on a death.

Out of group - Characters won't assist out of group, with the exception that the cleric will heal from out of group using XTarget healing (can be toggled on and off). There is a raid mode however, that will assist the RaidAssist.


While I see that you've already made a purchase, I feel this thread might be useful for others considering it.
Wonderful post. Im glad this info has a home in the forums for others who wonder the same things i did. EDIT: fantastic job on these plugins and looking forward to maybe bard mage and shaman =)
 
Last edited:

eqranger24

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 9, 2018
RedCents
161¢
I use SK and CLR from CWTN. Love both of them. As for the price its very fair. I am a father of 2 small children and setting up and getting the ini for my toons can take me days because I am limited with time. I enjoy playing eq and they allow me to jump in and just play. The class windows make it very easy to set up and start playing. However I do play 4 other toons with KA that do very well but I do not think they are on par with the plugins because I dont spend a lot of time setting them up. Normally grab something from the ini library and try to mod it to my needs. Sic's bard is excellent FYI. KA requires time to set up and learn and adjust for your play style.
 

Sum1

Warriors are inferior (read: crybaby) tanks
Joined
Jul 30, 2006
RedCents
1,639¢
For your cleric, you should try running MQ2heals with a kissassist.ini with the healing stuff turned off. I’ve found mq2heals does a great job healing, is faster than just kissassist, and it’s included in VV. I haven’t tried CWTN’s warrior plugin, so I can’t comment on that. I do use (religiously) his MQ2BerZerker plugin, though, and really like it.
 
Joined
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RedCents
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i run them all, i also have INI's ive wrote for my toons as well, prefer the CWTN plugins

ive done it with KA and rgmerc but i tend to prefer the plugins.

personally waiting on Paly (my fav tank) and bard, ofcourse we all are waiting on that one.

But atm i own all but rog now (really dont play my rogues hardly ever)
 
Joined
Aug 19, 2020
RedCents
1,203¢
I own all but mnk (dont have a monk..) and run them on 21 of 25 char, for group content. They do ok to great in raids, but situations can require stuff that a plugin doesnt really allow.

Just renewed war, clr.. and bst? for another year and will renew the rest as they roll. Do the job well, and way easier to set up with a ton of char.

3 bards use KA mostly.
1 wizard, mostly hand jammed since its a raid char. Use RGmercs or the KA that @Sum1 ? did up for general task.
 

Sic

hi
Moderator
Joined
May 5, 2016
RedCents
24,573¢
this thread was bumped for a reason other than the thread existing. and that bump was moved to a more appropriate thread now it is just echoing stuff already said in here =p
 
Joined
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RedCents
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For me if they have a class plugin that is released and I am playing that class in game I will buy. I absolutely love supporting the people behind these plugins and it's a small way of me buying them a beer if I would ever see them to say thank you! These plugins have made QOL completely unmeasurable! I have other classes I can't wait to be release by them, but I never speak of these classes since I don't want Sic to tell me that it will now be last on the list! :xd:
 

wymranar

I <3 SKs *kissy face*
Joined
Jun 16, 2019
RedCents
955¢
I would buy the BER plugin for sure. I think that will give you the most improvement vs KA. Personally, I would drive the warrior with KA and mq2melee off, but that’s just me.

I think you can get the same or similar performance from the cleric using KA.

So,
BER - yes
CLR - no
WAR - maybe, personal preference

This is just my opinion that I’m basing off reading other users evaluations. I’m sure other people can chime in that believe in all of the plugins efficacy.

Am going to reply to myself here...

Love the BER plugin and am about to buy the CLR plugin to better keep up with the healing in CoV. I would also purchase the WAR one but I main the warrior, so I always manually play him.
 

Blazin

Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2021
RedCents
35¢
Am going to reply to myself here...

Love the BER plugin and am about to buy the CLR plugin to better keep up with the healing in CoV. I would also purchase the WAR one but I main the warrior, so I always manually play him.
How well do they handle not having certain equipment? Clickies, abilities etc or is there a list that lets you know what you should have for it to work appropriately?
 
Joined
Nov 30, 2014
RedCents
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I am looking to get into some of these. I’m little confused on the physical set up. I have used very vanilla for years but this is actual mq2 right? I just watch Sic videos on each charter I see they have their own screen which looks amazing. From readying this thread I see the mq2….class each cost 20. I inferred from readying that the 20.00 must be a yearly cost per macro. Searching the threads I do not really see how to set up mq2? Is it just buy the macro and type load? I assume we have to download and copy it someplace? Can someone point me to a thread that may help start up?
 

Sic

hi
Moderator
Joined
May 5, 2016
RedCents
24,573¢
I am looking to get into some of these. I’m little confused on the physical set up. I have used very vanilla for years but this is actual mq2 right? I just watch Sic videos on each charter I see they have their own screen which looks amazing. From readying this thread I see the mq2….class each cost 20. I inferred from readying that the 20.00 must be a yearly cost per macro. Searching the threads I do not really see how to set up mq2? Is it just buy the macro and type load? I assume we have to download and copy it someplace? Can someone point me to a thread that may help start up?
howdy randy,

yes, the plugins are for mq/mq2

the cwtn plugins are $20 per 12-month license to the plugin.

you do not download and copy anything anywhere. once a license is purchased you use the VV launcher and it will download them.

all of the CWTN plugins are included with your LVL 2 RedGuide's membership for TEST server, so you can try them before you decide if they are for you.

You will definitely want to look at > Getting Started With The CWTN Plugins < information.
 
Joined
Nov 30, 2014
RedCents
113¢
howdy randy,

yes, the plugins are for mq/mq2

the cwtn plugins are $20 per 12-month license to the plugin.

you do not download and copy anything anywhere. once a license is purchased you use the VV launcher and it will download them.

all of the CWTN plugins are included with your LVL 2 RedGuide's membership for TEST server, so you can try them before you decide if they are for you.

You will definitely want to look at > Getting Started With The CWTN Plugins < information.
thank you will look now, i run a warrior, shammy, cleric, mage, chanter, zerker so i am thinking i need a few of these. just need to learn mq2
 
Joined
Jul 20, 2017
RedCents
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thank you will look now, i run a warrior, shammy, cleric, mage, chanter, zerker so i am thinking i need a few of these. just need to learn mq2
I 100% recommend the Cleric, Enchanter and Warrior CWTNs. They have changed my game play night and day.

There are a ton of resources that can make them Plug and play for you as well.

Like Sic say playing with them on test will give you a great Idea if they meet your play style.
 
Joined
Apr 8, 2019
RedCents
80¢
Hello Frens,

I am wondering about MQ2Berzerker, MQ2Cleric and so on. I am currently using KA11 with a bard, warrior, cleric, mage, berzerker. So I have watched Sic's videos on the matter and I was thinking about getting them. However, they are paid premium plugins and to get warrior, cleric and berzerker is about the same as all my eq accounts each month. So to the question.... Why buy these premium plugins ? Are they better then KA11 ? I am leaning towards getting them I just dont want to buy them and wind up not using them because the differences between the two and not significant enough. Any thoughts would be appreciated as they may aleive my indecision.
the 20$ per year is very reasonable ...these plug ins work amazingly and are updated frequently.... try the zerker one and youll be sold...amazing attention to detail...amazing dps...
 
Joined
Jun 11, 2020
RedCents
34¢
Hello Frens,

I am wondering about MQ2Berzerker, MQ2Cleric and so on. I am currently using KA11 with a bard, warrior, cleric, mage, berzerker. So I have watched Sic's videos on the matter and I was thinking about getting them. However, they are paid premium plugins and to get warrior, cleric and berzerker is about the same as all my eq accounts each month. So to the question.... Why buy these premium plugins ? Are they better then KA11 ? I am leaning towards getting them I just dont want to buy them and wind up not using them because the differences between the two and not significant enough. Any thoughts would be appreciated as they may aleive my indecision.

i have zerker, war, cleric, sham. sk plugins. i can say that they are worth the 20 bones. id pay 30 for bard
/stares at SiC intensely!
 
Joined
Jul 23, 2021
RedCents
320¢
I know this is an old thread and a lot has been said already but throwing my 2 cents out there.

I purchased the monk, SK, Mage, Enc, Clr and Shaman plugins. To be honest, the whole group is completely automated when and if I want it to be. I drive my SK but still keep the plugin loaded. Often I will scout/pull with the plugin paused and then unpause the macro and just let the automation handle the tanking. Not always, just depends on how lazy I am or what the pull looks like.

The Enchanter plugin is amazing. Unless I am in a spot where stuff can't be mezzed or hits very, very hard, I no longer worry about multiples. Everything gets mezzed almost immediately upon arriving into camp. It really has changed my play style (probably not a good thing as I am less careful now!).

Lastly, as someone who came back to the game after a decade plus, I found keeping up with the spells/abilities and the ini files of KissAssist to be very time consuming. I found myself on Allakhazam often to ensure I had the best spell available and trying to tweak the ini files for best performance. Looking back, I think most of my time was spent trying to manage the ini files to get the proper setup and less time was spent actually playing the game. Now that I am a couple months in and had a chance to relearn these classes, I would feel more comfortable managing the ini files but it sure is nice to see when I am missing something in my line up.

FYI my team is now in their low 90's for reference.
 
Joined
May 23, 2020
RedCents
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On a TLP the plugins arent needed and often problematic as performance is well under KA. In particular the ability usage is spammy and often leaves no gas in the tank as it's used all the cooldowns on trash. does not offer ways to prevent this over usage. for a grouper its no big deal but for small raiders it doesnt help.

edt: cwtn plugins tuned for live not tlp
 

Sic

hi
Moderator
Joined
May 5, 2016
RedCents
24,573¢
On a TLP the plugins arent needed and often problematic as performance is well under KA. In particular the ability usage is spammy and often leaves no gas in the tank as it's used all the cooldowns on trash. does not offer ways to prevent this over usage. for a grouper its no big deal but for small raiders it doesnt help.

edt: cwtn plugins tuned for live not tlp
most of this is adjustable with min mana values for things like dotmanamin and nukemanamin and values at which to assist, heal, burn conditions either by all named, or burncount, manually calling to start and stop burning, and such - plenty of people use them and are very happy.

but your mileage may vary.
 

ChatWithThisName

⚔️🛡️🗡️
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On a TLP the plugins arent needed and often problematic as performance is well under KA. In particular the ability usage is spammy and often leaves no gas in the tank as it's used all the cooldowns on trash. does not offer ways to prevent this over usage. for a grouper its no big deal but for small raiders it doesnt help.

edt: cwtn plugins tuned for live not tlp
Only license you have is rogue, what experience is this information based on?
 
Joined
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RedCents
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most of this is adjustable with min mana values for things like dotmanamin and nukemanamin and values at which to assist, heal, and such - plenty of people use them and are very happy.

but your mileage may vary.
Oh for sure, on LIVE or any of the higher content it is absolutely amazing. I've message you a few times to figure out the secrets of the snappy engages and a few other things. I would recommend this to anyone who is considering using this in live applications.

On TLP (Rizlona) for group content, perfectly fine. However if you start to get into raiding (By yourself or with others), many users prefer Entropy, Modbots, Mule/Kiss Assist as it has far more customizability than CWTN plugins.

To answer you CWTN - there isn't really a need to get defensive or try to disprove an opinion. Rizlona constant chats with almost anyone who will listen about what to use on it, since every macro/program has its good and bad. Taking a sliver of the CWTN pie - the rogue world - many users use it just for clearing trash, or in group content, however in raids have noticed that they are out of end, out of cooldowns, and pretty much just sitting there doing backstabs without any of the cools on boss fights. When I 30-box, I don't usually look at my rogue, however anytime I was using the plugin I noticed very much the same - my rogue would generally be doing half the damage of my mages, wizards, rangers and monks. I used it for a month before reverting to Kiss Assist as there was far more functionality and performs alot better in doing so. There's alot of chatter and quite frankily, consensus seems to be that CWTN is great on the LIVE side of things.
 

Sic

hi
Moderator
Joined
May 5, 2016
RedCents
24,573¢
different strokes for different folks.

the things you mentioned are adjustable /shrug

the cwtn plugins aren't for everyone, that's why we always recommend trying them out on the test server (as they are included with your lvl 2 Very Vanilla) before deciding if it is something you want to commit to.

re: your edits - yup, those systems allow for much more granular specificity of what/where/how/why/when as that is what/how they are designed for. ours are not designed with that level of specificity. that is part of the trade-off of "we'll make all the choices for you" vs "design your setup exactly how you want it setup". we do try accommodate where we can - like in the specific instances of adjustments made for TLP for rogue - (adding exeisburn toggle (because of the functionality difference), adding an opener, adding a check for your "fellstrike" ability if you're over lvl 20 and it is still elbow strike - these were TLP specific changes based on requested and feedback for a better playing experience). - so if you find yourself with needs outside of those things, and is an ask that we've said we're not going to implement we recognize that a different tool might be more applicable for the job. We have no hard feelings about it, and I have no hard/ill feelings about our conversation and/or disagreement (if there is one). I feel like we're just trying to clarify things at this point. to be clear - no feathers rustled here. Have a good one

add:
the best place for your feedback from your personal experience would be using the "Leave a Rating" review thing. This would allow folks to see your points and help them make a more-informed decision based on other people's experiences.
 
Joined
Jul 24, 2019
RedCents
3,684¢
I am using Berzerker, Warrior, and Rogue Plugins and believe they are worth every cent. But when it comes to spellcasters - I find the flexibility of KA much better.
Ive changed my mind on this....the Enchanter, Beast, Shaman and Mage plugins are excellent and I just dont have to worry about them.

We all have our own play styles - and I was getting hung up on the fact that the CWTN plugins dont play exactly as I would.....But I have given over to "TRUST IN SIC n CHAT" - because the plugins certainly make raiding easier, and you just have to look at the quality of the work to know they put a huge amount of effort into getting the most DPS, or best healing to suit 90% of the situations.
 

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