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Question - Getting started? (1 Viewer)

Joined
Dec 29, 2022
RedCents
620¢
Howdy RG folks,

I’ve been back on EQ for about a year after over a decade away. Despite an active server population, pick up groups were hard to come by so I started a small box crew with mercs. Currently, I run SK, SHM, BER using alt-tab on a laptop.

I’m leveling a BARD, MAG, and second BER to round out the crew while I’m doing a bunch of reading and YouTube watching to learn how to MQ.

A couple of questions for the hive mind:

1) What’s the best (easiest?) way to get started? Just buy some of the paid stuff and let it run, tweaking as I go? Jump into normal content I’d hit or play around in a lower-level sandbox a bit? I’ve got the quick-start videos saved already so this is more of a question of how to get proficient and productive rather than how to actually download and run stuff.

2) I’m considering swapping SHM for BST and MAG for CLR, which would line up with what a lot of the crews I’m seeing have (SK, CLR, BST, BARD, BERx2). I’ve read a lot of “play what you like” and “as long as you have the holy trinity everything else is user preference” type of commentary, but I’m curious if a CLR and BST would be worth getting rid of SHM slows and utility plus CotH.

3) Currently, my 3 accts are gold and have NoS. I’m likely to keep 3 accts gold and 3 silver. Other than the tank, are there 2 toons that are better as gold accts compared to the others?

Thanks all! I look forward to elevating my EQ game shortly :)
 
Last edited:
Joined
Aug 19, 2020
RedCents
2,350¢
1. Watch the new user vids, read, play around in game. Some of the tools (cwtn class plugins), are free on test, so can /test copy and give them a free whirl. There are many many tools, some included with level 2, so stand alone purchase, def get your feet wet before settling on any one thing.

2. Yes holy trinity, then do what you like. One of the members here is running a 6 pally group. Clerics are great for level'n, and are a nice safety blanket. Once your current game (101+) and earning the new AAs, they are over kill. Shm and sk pair well with melee, and bst provide a ton of adps. there is a ton of way to make a cake, play aroubd. MQ makes catching up/tying new combos easy.

3. tank gold, then melee dps, since alot of the dps is based off weps + heroic stata, and best weps are gold, as are type 5/7/8 augs. f2p healers and casters are almost as good as paid, and dont suffer as badly not having H stats.

GL, ask questions, read up, there is even a very active discord channel you can come ask, and explore topics with us.
 
Joined
Sep 26, 2021
RedCents
3,541¢
Welcome to RG 2ndGoat! I think you'll find this community and it's support absolutely amazing! It sounds like you're on the right track by looking at the videos and the new used info.

I would say the best way to get started is to subscribe to level 2 as you will need that to access all the awesome tools here. Then pick the automation you prefer for your crew. Kissassist, RGercs, cwtn plugins, etc. Once you get em setup, I would recommend a zone your familiar with that has a bit easier content just so you can get everything dialed in. Hotbuttons, movement, etc. Then move on to where ever you like.

As for the crew, sounds like you have a pretty good setup with the SK,SHM,BER. Your idea of SK,CLR, BST, Bard and 2 x BER would be a solid crew for sure. Always add/play what you like but it looks like a good melee crew is in the works for you. I would add cc for sure and then 2 other melee that you like. Should be a great 6 crew and SHM can handle the healing at higher levels. If your crew is lower, then a CLR might be a good add.

I always see people's suggestions as keeping the tank gold and the rest can be silver, but it would also depend on your levels and gear.
 
Joined
Dec 29, 2022
RedCents
620¢
Welcome to RG 2ndGoat! I think you'll find this community and it's support absolutely amazing! It sounds like you're on the right track by looking at the videos and the new used info.

I would say the best way to get started is to subscribe to level 2 as you will need that to access all the awesome tools here. Then pick the automation you prefer for your crew. Kissassist, RGercs, cwtn plugins, etc. Once you get em setup, I would recommend a zone your familiar with that has a bit easier content just so you can get everything dialed in. Hotbuttons, movement, etc. Then move on to where ever you like.

As for the crew, sounds like you have a pretty good setup with the SK,SHM,BER. Your idea of SK,CLR, BST, Bard and 2 x BER would be a solid crew for sure. Always add/play what you like but it looks like a good melee crew is in the works for you. I would add cc for sure and then 2 other melee that you like. Should be a great 6 crew and SHM can handle the healing at higher levels. If your crew is lower, then a CLR might be a good add.

I always see people's suggestions as keeping the tank gold and the rest can be silver, but it would also depend on your levels and gear.
Knowing myself, I think I'd like to be able to look at something that's more plug-and-play initially, then as I get more comfortable or as needs arise, start customizing. With that in mind, as far as Kiss v. CWTN v. others goes, is there a particular automation that you think is best to start with? Sort of a "crawl, walk, run" style implementation? Or is there one that's worth the upfront investment, where it might take longer to dial in initially, but which will be significantly better longer term?
 
Joined
Aug 19, 2020
RedCents
2,350¢
CWTN line is designed to be out the box, min setup, killing dragons and opening loot chest. That being said, they cover a median use, and can only be customized to a limited extent.

Kiss is ran off the KA logic, using a user defined .ini file per char to do the business. the business being whatever you enter in that ini, or whatever ini you get from the library.

RG mercs is in the middle of that.

There are other tools, including xgen, entropy, MuleAssist (a fork of Kiss), abd im possibly missing a few.
 
Joined
Dec 29, 2022
RedCents
620¢
CWTN line is designed to be out the box, min setup, killing dragons and opening loot chest. That being said, they cover a median use, and can only be customized to a limited extent.

Kiss is ran off the KA logic, using a user defined .ini file per char to do the business. the business being whatever you enter in that ini, or whatever ini you get from the library.

RG mercs is in the middle of that.

There are other tools, including xgen, entropy, MuleAssist (a fork of Kiss), abd im possibly missing a few.
Great input. Thanks! I was having a hard time separating them out in my mind, so this is super helpful.
 
Joined
Sep 26, 2021
RedCents
3,541¢
Knowing myself, I think I'd like to be able to look at something that's more plug-and-play initially, then as I get more comfortable or as needs arise, start customizing. With that in mind, as far as Kiss v. CWTN v. others goes, is there a particular automation that you think is best to start with? Sort of a "crawl, walk, run" style implementation? Or is there one that's worth the upfront investment, where it might take longer to dial in initially, but which will be significantly better longer term?

As Durango said, cwtn is plug and play and they are amazing. I use SHD,MAG,SHM,ENC on cwtn and then KA for DRU and WIZ. If/when cwtn releases wiz and dru, I would try those as well.

KA works very well, but does require maintenance. If you're max level, it's a bit easier as you will not need to modify the ini's much. I use a few different saved ones for each toon depending on the content I am playing. Easy to end one and start a new one on the fly.

If you're still leveling though, you'll need to update the ini's at least every 5 levels, if not more to take advantage of new spells/abilities. If you like to tinker and learn, this is a fun way to go.

Keep in mind you can also /testcopy your toons and use cwtn free on test server to try them out.
 
Joined
Jul 29, 2019
RedCents
564¢
Welcome to the party!
party GIF
 
Joined
Dec 29, 2022
RedCents
620¢
Another question :)
I'm currently running a healer merc and 2 melee dps mercs (all J5).
At what point should I expect my SHM to heal better than the merc and the MAG and BER I'm building to out-perform the dps mercs? Assume lvl 115 with ToL t1 gear and auto-grant AA as a starting point.
I'm curious if it makes sense to run some of the stuff I'm doing with my current setup for a while until the others catch up or if they'll put me ahead of the curve as soon as I bring them into the fold.
 

Sic

[sic]
Moderator
Joined
May 5, 2016
RedCents
32,319¢
Another question :)
I'm currently running a healer merc and 2 melee dps mercs (all J5).
At what point should I expect my SHM to heal better than the merc and the MAG and BER I'm building to out-perform the dps mercs? Assume lvl 115 with ToL t1 gear and auto-grant AA as a starting point.
I'm curious if it makes sense to run some of the stuff I'm doing with my current setup for a while until the others catch up or if they'll put me ahead of the curve as soon as I bring them into the fold.
101+ a shm can solo heal a group just fine - especially of shd or pal tank.

Mercs aren't great and are often recommended against, even if just kronod (to autogrant aas) f2p toons
 
Joined
Dec 29, 2022
RedCents
620¢
101+ a shm can solo heal a group just fine - especially of shd or pal tank.

Mercs aren't great and are often recommended against, even if just kronod (to autogrant aas) f2p toons
Awesome about the SHM.

Do you know if mercs are recommended against out of bias or are there relatively current comparisons anywhere?
I mean, I suppose the argument "the merc is stealing a real toon's exp" is valuable regardless, but I'm curious if I'll be losing out on dps swapping to an auto-granted MAG and BER vs the melee dps mercs. Guess I'll just have to tinker with it and see :)
 
Joined
Jul 27, 2019
RedCents
894¢
Awesome about the SHM.

Do you know if mercs are recommended against out of bias or are there relatively current comparisons anywhere?
I mean, I suppose the argument "the merc is stealing a real toon's exp" is valuable regardless, but I'm curious if I'll be losing out on dps swapping to an auto-granted MAG and BER vs the melee dps mercs. Guess I'll just have to tinker with it and see :)
the short answer is yes, you're loosing out on dps vs even a f2p toon that has been autogranted AAs. For example, an autogranted mage with non prestige gear that takes the time to get all the critical dps AAs during the 30 days they can AA can do 400 to 500k dps non burn fairly easily at 120. With the right composition, they can do 800 to 1m dps non burn in that situation. Mercs will never come close to that.
 
Joined
Dec 29, 2022
RedCents
620¢
Subbed to level 2 yesterday, pored through what I imagine is only a fingernail’s worth of the content here, but got KA set up on my core crew and spent some relatively safe time farming and learning how stuff works.

Overseer macro, spell skillups, and Bazaar have all been super helpful already.

Gonna try to incorporate my bard and mage tomorrow, see how it goes. Wish me luck!
 
Joined
Dec 23, 2020
RedCents
853¢
If dropping $20 per class to get CWTN plugins doesn't get you in trouble , I would do it now. They are simply amazing. If you keep rolling with the bard(I would!) there's some great KA ini's for that. I run the same crew you're leveling up and love it. I am too lazy to replace my mage with BST.
 
Joined
Oct 23, 2018
RedCents
783¢
Subbed to level 2 yesterday, pored through what I imagine is only a fingernail’s worth of the content here, but got KA set up on my core crew and spent some relatively safe time farming and learning how stuff works.

Overseer macro, spell skillups, and Bazaar have all been super helpful already.

Gonna try to incorporate my bard and mage tomorrow, see how it goes. Wish me luck!
and if you dont like editing ini every lvl, you could always give RGmercs a try! =)
 
Joined
Jan 17, 2020
RedCents
113¢
Awesome about the SHM.
Mentioned this in a different thread but I strongly recommend doing the legwork to get the shaman rez stick if you choose shaman. There are some great resources/guides to get you through it as well. It makes a world of difference.

It has been quite awhile since I used this, so I'm not sure about how smoothly it goes.
Good luck!
 
Joined
Oct 12, 2015
RedCents
1,056¢
High Five Boom GIF by TipsyElves.com


I had taken a long break, came back and EQ alone had a lot of changes, the walk throughs are nice, not everything is answered, but it's enough to be dangerous LOL... that said, I might have as well have been new to EQ.

Discovering MQ2 was a gamechanger and I definitely found that learning and refining the INI taught me the most; experiment here, ask a question here, apply it there, seemed to teach me the most about it... I really enjoyed the older INI websites that walked me through (though I believe some are out of date or whatnot... they still were a really great place to learn a basic knowledge)

KISSASSIST

Still one of my favorites for learning and quick reference, if there's better, I am unaware... another one I liked for / macro commands was

MQ2MOVEUTILS

Just a couple nuggets that help me sort it out... and then again, asking questions of the community here @ RG has been HUGE!

Good Luck and Welcome!




Just my two red:rcents.

[HINT: 🐻 You too can help prevent forum fires by also "red:rcenting" (click the :rc icon to the right ---->)
 
Joined
Aug 12, 2018
RedCents
1,093¢
Subbed to level 2 yesterday, pored through what I imagine is only a fingernail’s worth of the content here, but got KA set up on my core crew and spent some relatively safe time farming and learning how stuff works.
I suggest that you also read up on what Red Cents can DO for YOU and that level TWO. That rhymes huh?

Quick run down. A level 2 can be maintained by giving and getting Red Cents. Only need 50 a month. As you can see some of us have given you Red Cents which raise your total by 10 each time we do. And if you give others Red Cents for their useful, funny, helpful etc posts then not only do they get some but you do too. And it doesn't take away from your total.

But you can only give away 4 times a day so choose wisely, Luke. ;)
 
Joined
Dec 29, 2022
RedCents
620¢
I suggest that you also read up on what Red Cents can DO for YOU and that level TWO. That rhymes huh?

Quick run down. A level 2 can be maintained by giving and getting Red Cents. Only need 50 a month. As you can see some of us have given you Red Cents which raise your total by 10 each time we do. And if you give others Red Cents for their useful, funny, helpful etc posts then not only do they get some but you do too. And it doesn't take away from your total.

But you can only give away 4 times a day so choose wisely, Luke. ;)
Oh wow. Good to know. I've been active on the forums for the last few days, but I didn't realize this was a thing. I'd heard of RedCents, but had no clue how it worked. HAHA Thanks for the tip!

If dropping $20 per class to get CWTN plugins doesn't get you in trouble , I would do it now. They are simply amazing. If you keep rolling with the bard(I would!) there's some great KA ini's for that. I run the same crew you're leveling up and love it. I am too lazy to replace my mage with BST.
I'm getting more and more convinced that this is the way to go. I need to spend some time farming stuff for the mage and ber in ToL and the FTP accts don't have that expansion, so perhaps I just dip my toes into CWTN with zerk, shm, sk for now. Knowing myself, I'm sure in three days I'll be back for more lol

Mentioned this in a different thread but I strongly recommend doing the legwork to get the shaman rez stick if you choose shaman. There are some great resources/guides to get you through it as well. It makes a world of difference.

It has been quite awhile since I used this, so I'm not sure about how smoothly it goes.
Good luck!
Thanks for the link. I'm going to have to look into that. I've still got a merc healer in the crew (for now), so it's less of an issue, but I'm sure there's a lot of benefit to having the rez stick. Matter of fact, that might have just become my project for today haha
 
Joined
Aug 12, 2018
RedCents
1,093¢
Oh wow. Good to know. I've been active on the forums for the last few days, but I didn't realize this was a thing. I'd heard of RedCents, but had no clue how it worked. HAHA Thanks for the tip!


I'm getting more and more convinced that this is the way to go. I need to spend some time farming stuff for the mage and ber in ToL and the FTP accts don't have that expansion, so perhaps I just dip my toes into CWTN with zerk, shm, sk for now. Knowing myself, I'm sure in three days I'll be back for more lol


Thanks for the link. I'm going to have to look into that. I've still got a merc healer in the crew (for now), so it's less of an issue, but I'm sure there's a lot of benefit to having the rez stick. Matter of fact, that might have just become my project for today haha
I like using Tokens of Resurrection - any class can use one, in combat out of combat, on yourself, on someone else etc. So when your merc dies or won't rez you cause you still in battle you can just pop one of these and rez that player.

They are 86 loyalty tokens from one of the loyalty merchants or a mysterious presence [ Overseer Merchant ] in Plane of Knowledge also sells these for 22450 coin. If that is your old account your playing you will have a ton of Loyalty to use up. Your likely capped and not earning anymore till you spend. If its not your old account then it will take a while to earn them.
 
Joined
Dec 29, 2022
RedCents
620¢
I like using Tokens of Resurrection - any class can use one, in combat out of combat, on yourself, on someone else etc. So when your merc dies or won't rez you cause you still in battle you can just pop one of these and rez that player.

They are 86 loyalty tokens from one of the loyalty merchants or a mysterious presence [ Overseer Merchant ] in Plane of Knowledge also sells these for 22450 coin. If that is your old account your playing you will have a ton of Loyalty to use up. Your likely capped and not earning anymore till you spend. If its not your old account then it will take a while to earn them.
ooooh good to know!
 
Joined
Dec 29, 2022
RedCents
620¢
Worth. The. Cash. I went from being woefully incapable of doing some stuff to being able to yawn through it.
CWTN SK, SHM, BER plus KA12 for the bard.
Haven't incorporated other toons yet (still debating) but holy smokes the increase in capability is pretty staggering.
 
Joined
Dec 29, 2022
RedCents
620¢
Throw in a Rogue and Bst you'll have a nice melee dps group :)
I'm considering a couple of options. Currently: SK, SHM, BRD, BER. With what I have currently available (or very quickly able to catch up), I could do one of these:

SK, SHM, BRD, BERx2, MAG
SK, SHM, BRD, BERx2, CLR
SK, BST, BRD, BERx2, CLR

I've kept my healer merc going with the SHM and my survivability is pretty top notch and I like that. I don't mind a wipe, but I don't like it either. I think I'd rather be a little safer than not. Is CLR + SHM overkill? I'm thinking I like that setup for the utility SHM brings rather than just the MAG's dps ... thoughts?
 
Joined
Aug 27, 2020
RedCents
1,825¢
It depends on the level of your crew. At high levels using SHM and CLR is usually overkill. My main tank is SK and I use a SHM exclusively for heals in group content/missions. I do use the Cleric on raids, but it's more about the battle rez than the actual healing output.

However, the SHM can struggle as a solo healer until you get 100+, so if you're lower level you might want to keep the cleric around.

In terms of DPS, just pick whatever floats your boat. I run a mage now and it's great. COH can also be nice for getting around, especially when you're doing partisan tasks. Another nice thing about the mage is they really don't need much in gear/augs, which can be nice if you're bootstrapping a group. But anything is fine.
 

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