• You've discovered RedGuides 📕 an EverQuest multi-boxing community 🛡️🧙🗡️. We want you to play several EQ characters at once, come join us and say hello! 👋
  • IS THIS SITE UGLY? Click "RG3" at the very bottom-left of this page to change it. To dismiss this notice, click the X --->

Question - DPS Issues in ToL (1 Viewer)

Joined
May 8, 2015
RedCents
63¢
Hi all,

I'm using CWTN Plugins and I'm getting pretty low DPS hunting ToL Trash/Named. Hoping yall could give some suggestions. My group total dps is about ~700k sustained and ~2m burst. Kill time is about 60-70 seconds per trash mob.
  • mix of Tier 1 Group CoV/ToL items for all slots. (ToL Weapons)
  • all classes are lvl 116 with lvl 116 spells.
  • all classes are maxed AA for lvl 116, including all available focus AA.
  • Bard (manually played) (str 2005, dex 2011, atk 3333) (~140k sustained ~250k burst against ToL Trash/Named)
  • SK (MQ2EsKay), (ac 7135, str 2554, dex 2664, atk 4310) (~120k sustained ~900k burst against ToL Trash/Named) (only toon with augs)
  • Zerk 1 (MQ2Berzerker), (str 1920, dex 1904, atk 3876) (~200k sustained ~800k burst against ToL Trash/Named) (epic 1.0)
  • Zerk 2 (MQ2Berzerker), (str 1971, dex 1988, atk 3985) (~200k sustained ~800k burst against ToL Trash/Named) (no epics)
  • Cleric
  • Shaman
Songs
  • Aura of Mardigar Effect Rk 2 (overhaste/spell dmg)
  • Pulse of Nikolas (hp/mp/endu regen)
  • War March of Radiwol Rk 2 (haste, str, atk, ds, skills)
  • Arcane Symphony Rk 2 (melee dmg proc)
  • Omorden's Song of Suffering Rk 2 (melee dmg proc)
Any suggestions?
  • Aug up the Zerkers. (Would help, but would it help get to 750k I see people report? Not likely.)
  • Epics for Zerkers. (Epic 1 had no dps increase.)
  • Third Zerker for Alliance.
  • Switching Zerkers for Mages.
  • Avoid upgrading spells and the focus traps.
Requests
  • lvl 120 group Mage ToL group dps with high AA and group gear.
  • lvl 120 group BeastLord ToL group dps with high AA and group gear.
 

Sic

:)
Moderator
Joined
May 5, 2016
RedCents
28,558¢
this is more of a "general" dps/eq question rather than cwtn plugins specifically, so im moving this out of the cwtn section

ToL is a tier jump, things hit harder and have more hps.

do you have augs? your melee toons need hdex. you should shoot for at least 2600+ hdex (actual hDex, not dex).

augs make a huge difference

you're hunting 115-120 content with 115 gear and aas, which likely means for many spells you don't even have the focus aa for the abilities you're using yet they are significant damage - so like you mentioned about spells/focus this is important

double healers is an entire slot that is wasted, unless you're full dps with your shm (who also need a decent amount of time since they're mainly dot based) - drop a healer (cleric) for a bst imo

does your bard have epic? if not, don't do anything else until it does
does your shm have epic? if not, don't do anything until it does
does your sk have epic? if not, don't do anything until it does

do you have rage of rolfrons?
do you have unity feathers?
probably should get these

do you have rallos ear or 18/19s on your toons? things like the + attackers

zerker epic is a dmg increase unless you're already crit capping, which would mean you have significant hdex, which would mean you'd likely not have the problems you're thinking you have

I suggest, at least using the cwtn plugins to assistat 100 - not 98, that is a significant amount of wasted time imo. i have all my toons assisting at 100, 100% of the time.

two zerkers can force alliance - can do that for burns

zerkers also recently got "fixed" where one of their abilities was double triggering and shouldnt, so their dps is a little lower than it was previously - mage,s bsts, rogs, and rangers are really shining right now - but i still love my zerkers, they are still absolute bangers

how are you parsing? make sure you're *actually* getting the numbers you think you are. i suggest gamparse or eqlogparser --- make sure your filters are correct on the person who is parsing - not seeing guild dots or spells or whatnot can give you the impression nothing is happening.
 
Joined
Oct 12, 2015
RedCents
119¢
this is more of a "general" dps/eq question rather than cwtn plugins specifically, so im moving this out of the cwtn section

ToL is a tier jump, things hit harder and have more hps.

do you have augs? your melee toons need hdex. you should shoot for at least 2600+ hdex (actual hDex, not dex).

augs make a huge difference

you're hunting 115-120 content with 115 gear and aas, which likely means for many spells you don't even have the focus aa for the abilities you're using yet they are significant damage - so like you mentioned about spells/focus this is important

double healers is an entire slot that is wasted, unless you're full dps with your shm (who also need a decent amount of time since they're mainly dot based) - drop a healer (cleric) for a bst imo

does your bard have epic? if not, don't do anything else until it does
does your shm have epic? if not, don't do anything until it does
does your sk have epic? if not, don't do anything until it does

do you have rage of rolfrons?
do you have unity feathers?
probably should get these

do you have rallos ear or 18/19s on your toons? things like the + attackers

zerker epic is a dmg increase unless you're already crit capping, which would mean you have significant hdex, which would mean you'd likely not have the problems you're thinking you have

I suggest, at least using the cwtn plugins to assistat 100 - not 98, that is a significant amount of wasted time imo. i have all my toons assisting at 100, 100% of the time.

two zerkers can force alliance - can do that for burns

zerkers also recently got "fixed" where one of their abilities was double triggering and shouldnt, so their dps is a little lower than it was previously.

how are you parsing? make sure you're *actually* getting the numbers you think you are. i suggest gamparse or eqlogparser --- make sure your filters are correct on the person who is parsing - not seeing guild dots or spells or whatnot can give you the impression nothing is happening.
Sic... this... was... awesomely... thorough... sir!
 

Many_Whelps

WoW was the first MMO
Joined
Jul 22, 2018
RedCents
8,785¢
If I'm reading correctly, you have only T1 Cov group gear... any reason why you skipped the T3 gear available at 115? ToL mobs have a ton more HP compared to CoV mobs so kill times are going to be much higher. And augs are def holding you back. You say only your SK has augs, so I'm going to assume that your zerkers have many type 5 and type 7 slots that are empty or are very outdated (like TBM era). That is a huge source of hdex and you're overlooking their importance if you think it doesn't make *that* much of a difference. I get that it's desirable to skip right to current content as soon as you hit level cap, but you have to remember that current content is balanced against the assumption that you farmed everything from the previous expansion. I suggest going back to CoV and even ToV to farm augments, type 5 and type 7, and get every slot on every character into T3 CoV group gear (tradeskilled made with ores from missions) before venturing into ToL.
 

stvski

Its in that place where I put that thing that time
Joined
Jun 20, 2017
RedCents
487¢
if i were you i would go blow up CoV and make yourself T3 armor for every slot you can if your a tradeskiller
that gear will last you to 120

blow up Zlandicar Reborn mission for augs and ore drops till your full on all toons

the mission coin will also fill up your slot 5 augs too

Epics - ive slacked on my SK and bard epic till now - didnt know it was still that useful
 
Joined
Feb 15, 2022
RedCents
764¢
Honestly, I would skip doing CoV T3 unless you are planning on staying in CoV for a long time without leveling. Tol T1 breaks even with T3 CoV at 118 and is better at 120. Everyone has been farming ToL pieces, and they are dirt cheap on the 3 servers I have toons on.
Just upgrade to ToL T1.

Augs are important, but you can focus on augs later or with fill ins. Since you are already max AA for your level, focus on gear and leveling. Your DPS doesn't matter, and is normal for the content in subpar gear. Since you are essentially 2 healing, kills are slower. Drop shaman for beastlord if you have one and lvl to 120. I know Sic said cleric for bst. However, I recently completed the 115 to 120 grind with your setup. I had a rog/ber instead of 2 berserkers, and I dropped my shm that was max AA at 115 and used cleric as sole healer and beastlord for shaman slot. I will never regret that decision.

The 750k reporters are using better gear and probably max level. My monk at 117 in full CoV T3 was 200kish sustained. Just like your toons.

You don't have a lack of DPS except a wasted slot. You lack gear, augs, levels, and better spells/abilities. You are literally right where you are supposed to be because of those factors.

As Sic mentioned, assistat 100 except for ToL missions where you need to position things first. I do 99 for those two missions. Makes it less of a hassle.

At 120, max AA, full T3 ToL, and every toon with BS weapons are 700-800k sustained except bard. He's low because he's support only. On named, 1.5m for rog,ber. 1.2 bst. 1.1 on Shd. Brd is about 500-600k.

Dont sweat it today. Seriously. Put the dps meter away until you hit 120 and in better gear/spells. Then you can start looking at numbers.

My opinion.


 
Joined
Jul 10, 2018
RedCents
218¢
1. get yourself into the T1 Waning stuff (buy it, pharm it)
2. level to 120
3. get your important focus / synergy AA next, then
4. upgrade your spells 116-120 (don't do it beforehand or along the way)

If you upgrade your spells before you have the AA to focus them, then all the focus and synergies go whack and you lose them (and the associated deeps)
 
Joined
Aug 11, 2015
RedCents
1,740¢
1. get yourself into the T1 Waning stuff (buy it, pharm it)
2. level to 120
3. get your important focus / synergy AA next, then
4. upgrade your spells 116-120 (don't do it beforehand or along the way)

If you upgrade your spells before you have the AA to focus them, then all the focus and synergies go whack and you lose them (and the associated deeps)
This is really important, I slacked on getting my Bard synergy for one and was really unhappy with the results
 
Joined
Oct 18, 2013
RedCents
1,377¢
  • Bard (manually played) (str 2005, dex 2011, atk 3333) (~140k sustained ~250k burst against ToL Trash/Named)
  • SK (MQ2EsKay), (ac 7135, str 2554, dex 2664, atk 4310) (~120k sustained ~900k burst against ToL Trash/Named) (only toon with augs)
  • Zerk 1 (MQ2Berzerker), (str 1920, dex 1904, atk 3876) (~200k sustained ~800k burst against ToL Trash/Named) (epic 1.0)
  • Zerk 2 (MQ2Berzerker), (str 1971, dex 1988, atk 3985) (~200k sustained ~800k burst against ToL Trash/Named) (no epics)
  • Cleric
  • Shaman
Songs
  • Aura of Mardigar Effect Rk 2 (overhaste/spell dmg)
  • Pulse of Nikolas (hp/mp/endu regen)
  • War March of Radiwol Rk 2 (haste, str, atk, ds, skills)
  • Arcane Symphony Rk 2 (melee dmg proc)
  • Omorden's Song of Suffering Rk 2 (melee dmg proc)
So I'll be a little blunt while trying to also be helpful.

1 - Drop the cleric if you care about DPS, pick up a rogue or beastlord or ranger if you have a good .ini for one. Obviously only if your group is surviving content, the cleric is just overhealing and provides no real DPS.
2 - Drop the berzerkers (or at least one of them), and make a rogue. My sustained on multi-hour camp grinds is 4+ mil, because the rogues (I use 2) are dropping 1.1-1.6 mil sustained.
3 - Bard stuff:
  1. I hope you meant Aria and not Aura.
  2. Pulse should be used for downtime, not combat.
  3. Arcane Symphony is useless unless you are running casters, get rid of it.
  4. Song of Suffering can be part of a pre-engage melody, but not part of your combat melody. Get it out of there. The DPS benefit does not match with the song space in a melody.
    Your new melody:
    1. Insult (non-push for group content, such as Yelinak's)
    2. Aria
    3. War March
    4. Jonthan's
    5. Insult (non-push)
    6. DoT
    7. DoT
    8. DoT
    9. DoT
  5. Your bard should be pumping 200-400k, which I realize is all dependent on how fast your group kills things because DoT ticks won't be on for very long. A lot more useful on nameds though. Feel free to swap the DoTs with the aDPS if you want to try out the difference.
 
Joined
Mar 2, 2019
RedCents
552¢
this is more of a "general" dps/eq question rather than cwtn plugins specifically, so im moving this out of the cwtn section

ToL is a tier jump, things hit harder and have more hps.

do you have augs? your melee toons need hdex. you should shoot for at least 2600+ hdex (actual hDex, not dex).

augs make a huge difference

you're hunting 115-120 content with 115 gear and aas, which likely means for many spells you don't even have the focus aa for the abilities you're using yet they are significant damage - so like you mentioned about spells/focus this is important

double healers is an entire slot that is wasted, unless you're full dps with your shm (who also need a decent amount of time since they're mainly dot based) - drop a healer (cleric) for a bst imo

does your bard have epic? if not, don't do anything else until it does
does your shm have epic? if not, don't do anything until it does
does your sk have epic? if not, don't do anything until it does

do you have rage of rolfrons?
do you have unity feathers?
probably should get these

do you have rallos ear or 18/19s on your toons? things like the + attackers

zerker epic is a dmg increase unless you're already crit capping, which would mean you have significant hdex, which would mean you'd likely not have the problems you're thinking you have

I suggest, at least using the cwtn plugins to assistat 100 - not 98, that is a significant amount of wasted time imo. i have all my toons assisting at 100, 100% of the time.

two zerkers can force alliance - can do that for burns

zerkers also recently got "fixed" where one of their abilities was double triggering and shouldnt, so their dps is a little lower than it was previously - mage,s bsts, rogs, and rangers are really shining right now - but i still love my zerkers, they are still absolute bangers

how are you parsing? make sure you're *actually* getting the numbers you think you are. i suggest gamparse or eqlogparser --- make sure your filters are correct on the person who is parsing - not seeing guild dots or spells or whatnot can give you the impression nothing is happening.
Interesting setting assistat to 100. Do you ever have issues with assisters getting hit too much or pulling mobs on pulls? I assume setting camp radius and stuff would correct that. I usually leave it straight out of the box on plugins for overlap buffer or camp radius unless the mobs have huge aggro range or are huge. Kael comes to mind. Would love to be a fly on the wall and see your personal plugin settings...am sure I am missing stuff lol.
 

Sic

:)
Moderator
Joined
May 5, 2016
RedCents
28,558¢
Interesting setting assistat to 100. Do you ever have issues with assisters getting hit too much or pulling mobs on pulls? I assume setting camp radius and stuff would correct that. I usually leave it straight out of the box on plugins for overlap buffer or camp radius unless the mobs have huge aggro range or are huge. Kael comes to mind. Would love to be a fly on the wall and see your personal plugin settings...am sure I am missing stuff lol.
no I never have issues with it - our plugins don't engage until the mob is in your camp, and they're "close" to your MA etc.
I've posted my screenies all over the place and talk about settings in vids

I don't have any "1 cool trick" or anything. i just set it how i would play if i was doing it (well if i was manually playing i'd be hitting that mob on incoming and make the tank #WorkIt
 
Joined
Mar 2, 2019
RedCents
552¢
Thank you, Sic for your trusted advice!
I think you got a great group makeup. Losing a little from having cleric and shammy but can understand the extra heals. I have Sk Bard zerk zerk....or rogue rogue .....or mage mage...and beast cleric...then when I get better gear I sub a shammy and take out cleric. In my experience the 2 zerks do the most on burns dps wise but regular mob to mob is not as good as some of my other combos then rogues ..the mages have the most consistant great dps mob to mob. I think you are just in between atm and this expansion has some mobs that take a bit to kill. I agree with the others....just one of those grind it out till aa and gear catch up....
 
Joined
Mar 2, 2019
RedCents
552¢
no I never have issues with it - our plugins don't engage until the mob is in your camp, and they're "close" to your MA etc.
I've posted my screenies all over the place and talk about settings in vids
I figured so I work a ton so have been slacking from watching your vids or reading a lot of posts. I get home and just want to kill and murder and stuff. Will check em out.
 

Sic

:)
Moderator
Joined
May 5, 2016
RedCents
28,558¢
I figured so I work a ton so have been slacking from watching your vids or reading a lot of posts. I get home and just want to kill and murder and stuff. Will check em out.
wasn't a "go do this" more of a "its not a secret, and they're available if you're interested"

happy hunting :p
 
Joined
Nov 9, 2021
RedCents
335¢
What numbers should a 120 mage be targeting for sustain? Setup for group is mage, mage, necro, enc, shm, sk. Rank 2 spells, no type 3’s yet, and important AA lines maxed, mostly T3 ToL.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Dec 19, 2020
RedCents
229¢
Since everyone else has been nice and more general, I'll be brutally honest and specific.

Step #1: Drop your cleric from the group and start it on tradeskills. Tradeskills nowadays is unavoidable and can really help patch up your lack of augs with player made augs...but you will need a lot of work. You don't have to get to 300 in everything, but the higher the better. Get the trophies done and go to work.

Step #2: Start a NEW account and make a Beastlord. Since you are 116, level the BST solo to 86 or 87 in "The Grounds" in House of Thule expansion. Then, once the BST can group with your 116 team, stick it in there and go find an easy ToV camp to grind the living crap out of. Buy the CTWN Plugin for BST when you are ready for it to stop sitting there.

Step #3: Grind ToV missions & CoV missions to pick up ores, and throw some equipment to your BST. Every single toon will need a Velium Infused Gem of Security for their range slot. It's the best type 7 aug that will fit in a range slot.

Step #4: Now that your team has a little more ass and "umph" to it, start plowing Maiden's Eye. Depending on your tradeskill progress and plat situation, I would recommend going with Faded Waxing Crescent Armor to get everyone geared up. It's cheaper and less time consuming than going TS for every single slot. Ain't nobody got time for that. In fact, if you are flush with plat, you can probably pick up Faded Waxing Crescent Armor in the bazaar for a reasonable price. Priority to tank, of course, then arms and legs for your melee team. Skip the Faded Waning Crescent Armor and go straight to TS armor once you are ready (level 120).

Step #5: /fist bump

Some things not mentioned that I do:
  1. Use an empowered campfire. (Sic mentions this in videos but he didn't say it in this post so I'm stealing it) It will cost you about 1,000 plat per camp, but it helps the group out in every single way. If you are going to settle in to long grind at a camp, use it.
  2. With your Zerkers, turn off "UseMangling" and turn on "Burn Always." This will bump up your sustained DPS but will make you more vulnerable for named. Your choice.
  3. Make a Druid. With tradeskills, you are going to need a forager.
Carry on, soldier...carry on.
 
Joined
Oct 12, 2015
RedCents
119¢
If you're like me and you like the extra heals but need a dps bump... roll the paladin... I don't know that I "need" the healing anymore, but I like the variety of the paladin class... he's more or less a budget dps that can toss heals and bring an aura and a cleric hp/ac buff *shrug*... each to his own, what works for you, and, most importantly, what you enjoy playing... so many different options and setups out there that keep you truly busy playing this game LOL esp as a boxer :)
 
Joined
Aug 11, 2021
RedCents
72¢
this is more of a "general" dps/eq question rather than cwtn plugins specifically, so im moving this out of the cwtn section

ToL is a tier jump, things hit harder and have more hps.

do you have augs? your melee toons need hdex. you should shoot for at least 2600+ hdex (actual hDex, not dex).

augs make a huge difference

you're hunting 115-120 content with 115 gear and aas, which likely means for many spells you don't even have the focus aa for the abilities you're using yet they are significant damage - so like you mentioned about spells/focus this is important

double healers is an entire slot that is wasted, unless you're full dps with your shm (who also need a decent amount of time since they're mainly dot based) - drop a healer (cleric) for a bst imo

does your bard have epic? if not, don't do anything else until it does
does your shm have epic? if not, don't do anything until it does
does your sk have epic? if not, don't do anything until it does

do you have rage of rolfrons?
do you have unity feathers?
probably should get these

do you have rallos ear or 18/19s on your toons? things like the + attackers

zerker epic is a dmg increase unless you're already crit capping, which would mean you have significant hdex, which would mean you'd likely not have the problems you're thinking you have

I suggest, at least using the cwtn plugins to assistat 100 - not 98, that is a significant amount of wasted time imo. i have all my toons assisting at 100, 100% of the time.

two zerkers can force alliance - can do that for burns

zerkers also recently got "fixed" where one of their abilities was double triggering and shouldnt, so their dps is a little lower than it was previously - mage,s bsts, rogs, and rangers are really shining right now - but i still love my zerkers, they are still absolute bangers

how are you parsing? make sure you're *actually* getting the numbers you think you are. i suggest gamparse or eqlogparser --- make sure your filters are correct on the person who is parsing - not seeing guild dots or spells or whatnot can give you the impression nothing is happening.
So as usual Sic is right in the money, if you want to see the boost you need to have the epics and Augs, I run as many ToV, CoV, and ToL missions as I can as I recently came back and I'm trying to catch up on multi stat augs. I'd you have literally nothing the TBL missions also give more currency per run and there are so many of them you can quickly burn thru them to at least fill the aug slots.

Shaman, bard, and SK epics are essentially mandatory, the unity feather is certainly nice but if you don't have it you can't get it till next anni so just make your punch list of what you want to get next year

I'm finally start up leveling my trade skills, I've got my smithing, tailoring, and brewing trophy and just maxed brewing but I don't have anything done for JC or research yet. Eventually I will go go my artisans prize so I'm working on maxing them on my SK, but that means he can't grind the rest of my group so without a backup tank you might want to focus TS on a replacement char first to just be able to make things quickly/cheaply. Now that 2x ores drop from ToL chests you can go from needing ores to letting them rot very quickly. Plan what you want to use the ores for, gem of security for tanks, melee weapon ones, etc are all very effective and easy upgrades

Finally, what matters most (imo) is you can do the content, then once you can you can work on boosting DPS to make it faster, this is a game of inches, you might need to start off burning glyphs/big burns to do a particular mission/named, but before long you get enough incremental gains that you can save the glyphs/big burns for the next challenge. Again what as worked for me but YMMV, focus on one goal and work towards it, I run a fairly low DPS group with a cleric and sham, SK, bard, zerk right now and only 5 chars because I play with my RL friend in the 6th slot (when schedules align) but I'm currently for example trying to focus on controlling my team better because I can't reliabiliy win vs AHR yet, but the other 3 ToL missions are very easy and I have them on basically auto pilot mode, of course what makes it all easier is MOAR DPS, the faster the mobs die the left you have to deal with moving your team around thru mechanics.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top