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Question - Am I crippling myself with this party makeup? (1 Viewer)

Joined
Dec 2, 2019
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Currently run SK/SHM/CLR/(BRD or ENC)/BER/MAG. Wondering if I'm crippling myself too hard with the mage, since the zerk pulls 2x or 3x the DPS usually.

Considering dropping the mage for another melee or a rogue or somesuch just from a raw DPS standpoint. Or maybe a wizard for ports? Trying to optimize without running 3x zerker. I enjoy the mage for summons and for coh, and for offtank pet, which I rarely need anymore, so curious if the raw DPS gain from a better class would be more of an overall benefit
 
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What ini are you using? My mages do pretty great damage. Losing COTH is something I'd personally never want to do. It's so easy to get to zones anymore I wouldn't even want to trade losing it for ports.

While Clerics are awesome if you are only doing group content I'd think about letting the Shaman full time heal and slow, then add a DPS in the Clerics slot.

My main group is SK, SHM, BRD, BER, MAG, MAG, sometimes I do swap a Monk in to pull and swap out a Mage though, and mobs are melting in TOV.

If you wanted to min/max I'm sure 3x BER would be the way to go but you are definitely not hurting yourself with that group makeup.
 
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Joined
Dec 2, 2019
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What ini are you using? My mages do pretty great damage. Losing COTH is something I'd personally never want to do. It's so easy to get to zones anymore I wouldn't even want to trade losing it for ports.

While Clerics are awesome if you are only doing group content I'd think about letting the Shaman full time heal and slow, then add a DPS in the Clerics slot.

My main group is SK, SHM, BRD, BER, MAG, MAG, sometimes I do swap a Monk in to pull and swap out a Mage though, and mobs are melting in TOV.

If you wanted to min/max I'm sure 3x BER would be the way to go but you are definitely not hurting yourself with that group makeup.
I’ll have to double check but I am pretty sure that I am using SA_Krycek’s 110 mage ini
 
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Looking at your makeup it sounds fun to be honest. For me, I love to have a porter in the group, but I've been working on getting away from my laziness lol.

If you want more dps, the suggestion of dropping the cleric is a good idea and adding another melee or caster. The bard gives you a lot of benefits for your melee, and of course the enchanter is better for casters. I like the enchanter for the mez, but in a melee group bards are king. So, I think for you, just ask yourself melee or caster to replace the cleric. Or you can drop the sham and add a bst tons of options.

Most of all enjoy the game!
 
Joined
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Looking at your makeup it sounds fun to be honest. For me, I love to have a porter in the group, but I've been working on getting away from my laziness lol.

If you want more dps, the suggestion of dropping the cleric is a good idea and adding another melee or caster. The bard gives you a lot of benefits for your melee, and of course the enchanter is better for casters. I like the enchanter for the mez, but in a melee group bards are king. So, I think for you, just ask yourself melee or caster to replace the cleric. Or you can drop the sham and add a bst tons of options.

Most of all enjoy the game!
Yeah actually one of the biggest itches in the back of my mind has been to drop the SHM and add a BST. I lose my slows though. So maybe I'll drop the Cleric for something!
 
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Where are you having problems? One thing is i would keep bard most of the time. Tell us more about your mage. ini, augs, pet, extra It might be as fix.
 
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2 Healers - Shm/Clr is probably slowing you down more than the a mage instead of melee. I've found it hard to write a good pure DPS output ini for Sham. They shine in DoTs and mobs don't last long enough.

Bst is a great replacement for Shm, particularly for melee group as you get 66% uptime weapon speed reduction + watered down shammy buffs. Bst are a decent backup healer for the group. Bst + Mage also works well as you get pet toys, mage pet aura and mage pet related procs. People run great max level groups with either Clr or Shm, and some people do run both.

Min/maxing for your CC toons buffs - If you're wanting to max out, Brd should have all melee dps and Ench should have all caster dps. While both CC types can add a little to the opposite DPS-type, they really shine when they're buffing their aligned DPS-type. Mage is a little bit of a hybrid as you do get bard buffs on your pet, but I think they'd get more overall from an Ench's bonus to nuke crit.

Ports via fellowship - I used to love having a porter for each group, but I've found you can just PL a wiz/druid as an alt or extra account. Then put them in your fellowship and when you need a port, have them "insignia" in and grab the group. If somebody gets left behind (same account or dropped group for port) then drop a new campfire after port to get the member you left behind. Doing this I found I really only port maybe once a day or even a couple times a week, not worth building the group around it.

Take it all with a grain of salt, as I used to run a 3 healer group (dru/clr/shm) prior to campfires. The chance of wiping meant a long run, so I wanted to never wipe. You can really make almost any group work. So pick the toons you enjoy.
 
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Yeah actually one of the biggest itches in the back of my mind has been to drop the SHM and add a BST. I lose my slows though. So maybe I'll drop the Cleric for something!
BST is a great DPS option right now too. I just started one as a fill in for group 2 and I'm really impressed with his dps so far at 111. He's in full TOV non prestige gear. Really looking forward to seeing what he can do with some more AA and max level.
 
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Where are you having problems? One thing is i would keep bard most of the time. Tell us more about your mage. ini, augs, pet, extra It might be as fix.
Not really struggling, so to speak. Just seeing if I can speed up! I’ve gotten everything down how I like it with KA and VV, so now just trying to optimize the group.
 

drwhomphd

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So, if you think it'll be fun for yah, I'd go with it and enjoy the ride.

While I am by no means no expert, I think the only way to cripple yourself would be to have a group of 6 Bards!

Joking aside, as long as you have a Mezzed, a healer, and a tank (could MAYBE get away with pet tanks or something else depending?), DPS however you like. I think you'd be fine.
 

Sum1

Diehard is a christmas movie
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I wouldn't drop the cleric, personally. Stuff in ToV and TBL can be too difficult to reliably heal through on the shaman, unless your SK is raid geared. The missions are a good example where a shaman healer will have issues.

I would echo the beastlord suggestions. I would recommend (highly) that if you go with a beast, you use a 2-handed weapon. Right now beasts (and monks) are doing a lot more dps with 2 handers than they are with two 1-hand weapons.
 
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I think you got some great information here, just going to have to ponder on how to use it.

For me at this point, I just went ahead and continued my group which is necro/mage/enchanter/druid/shaman/Ranger. Adding the ranger alone was a major setup for me. I am noticing that there's really a need for a real tank, which i'll eventually put my paladin in for, but my main focus now is getting everyone up to 100, then grinding out some currency, I figure once I get to Kunark I can just farm T1 stuff instead of more rems, but we shall see. Overall, the biggest thing is what you have the most fun with. While my group isn't setting any records, I really enjoy the caster setup. For my next setup melee will play a king role. There's also something I wanted to try which is Paladin/Necro/Cleric/Enchanter/Mage/Wizard. Do a turn undead from the necro and see how much fun the paladin and cleric could have lol. I dunno, just have fun!
 
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Not really struggling, so to speak. Just seeing if I can speed up! I’ve gotten everything down how I like it with KA and VV, so now just trying to optimize the group.
Beastlord to replace sham. If i remember correctly bl can use a swarm pet that has a chance to cast more than one? Make sure you are stacking bard's spell damage buffs and if you not using echo, then make sure mage is in range of the aura effect. Sometimes my bard gets a little too far from my mage and thats a 30%+ loss to spell damage.
 
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I wouldn't drop the cleric, personally. Stuff in ToV and TBL can be too difficult to reliably heal through on the shaman, unless your SK is raid geared. The missions are a good example where a shaman healer will have issues.

I would echo the beastlord suggestions. I would recommend (highly) that if you go with a beast, you use a 2-handed weapon. Right now beasts (and monks) are doing a lot more dps with 2 handers than they are with two 1-hand weapons.
Unfortunately, not raid geared. In TBL T2 right now on most of my guys, and will soon have enough muhbis to go 8/8 T3 on the SK
 
Joined
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I run WAR/SHM/MNK/ENC/CLR/MAG

I just got the ENC/CLR/MAG up to 110 and they’re basically auto grant with mostly RoF armor+ some RoS

SHM/MNK are full ROS And 22500 aas

WAR is max aa and TBL tier 2+ GMM in non vis slots.

I have similar concerns when it comes to DPS. I’m really not sure what good numbers are at the moment as I haven’t had time to synchronize/work on the CLR/ENC/MAG inis for efficiency in the group yet. I’m using the same ini that you are for the MAG and I haven’t optimized my SHM to DPS with the addition of the CLR in the group now.

Last time I checked, they were doing about 350k/dps sustained just group killing in RoS. The Warrior surprisingly comes in 1st place on sustained killing at around 120k/dps.

Are these decent numbers considering the circumstances? What should I be shooting for? What are you getting out of your group/MAG??

I think mine is doing around 70k sustained.
 
Joined
Oct 3, 2019
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I’ll have to double check but I am pretty sure that I am using SA_Krycek’s 110 mage ini
Sorry, I missed this reply yesterday. Below is a link to the base .ini that I use. At work now so I cannot share my updates atm.

It's a little dated so you'll have to update things like the Spire changes and spells if you are 115. It's worth a shot to see how it compares to your current one. Any issues updating it let us know.

 
Joined
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So I was having this same issue. I was running the exact same group as the OP.
SK /CLR/SHM/ENC/BER/MAG I was like you not that happy with what I felt was lacking DPS in Sathir's Tomb and really noticed it when I went to TOV.

Right now I am running:
SK/CLR/ENC/BER/MNK/MAG ......... I also have outside of the group or at my disposal a SHM/ROG same account. So I usually bring them both. I like the SHM Buffs and if I need the Rogue for Corpse recovery she is there.
I agree with everyone about the ports. My original toon was a Wizard and I still have him but he has really been put away as I feel the Melee DPS is superior.

While this might not be the best set up for people it is extremely fun to play and lots of utility. Adding that monk was extremely useful and a ton more DPS added to the group. It added the needed DPS and fits well with my team. I do have a 110 Bard on the ENC account and have experimented with her but I am not finding an .ini that works for me with her. I am still experimenting and would love anyone's input on a good BRD .ini that would work with my group.

Good luck and in the end play what makes you happy or you find the most valuable. MIN/MAX with a bunch of BER does not sound fun to me. But eash his own.
 
Joined
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So I was having this same issue. I was running the exact same group as the OP.
SK /CLR/SHM/ENC/BER/MAG I was like you not that happy with what I felt was lacking DPS in Sathir's Tomb and really noticed it when I went to TOV.

Right now I am running:
SK/CLR/ENC/BER/MNK/MAG ......... I also have outside of the group or at my disposal a SHM/ROG same account. So I usually bring them both. I like the SHM Buffs and if I need the Rogue for Corpse recovery she is there.
I agree with everyone about the ports. My original toon was a Wizard and I still have him but he has really been put away as I feel the Melee DPS is superior.

While this might not be the best set up for people it is extremely fun to play and lots of utility. Adding that monk was extremely useful and a ton more DPS added to the group. It added the needed DPS and fits well with my team. I do have a 110 Bard on the ENC account and have experimented with her but I am not finding an .ini that works for me with her. I am still experimenting and would love anyone's input on a good BRD .ini that would work with my group.

Good luck and in the end play what makes you happy or you find the most valuable. MIN/MAX with a bunch of BER does not sound fun to me. But eash his own.

What kind of dps were you doing before. and what kind of dps are you doing now?
 
Joined
Jul 15, 2019
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Wymranar,
That is hard to say I can say that I am still not getting anywhere near the numbers that others are pulling. I run GAMPARSE v2.0.0.97 Beta and as of 10 minutes ago I just did the following in ST. This was non burn on A Guardian Golem. So a lot more hit points on mob and longer fight.

SK is Tier III TBL gear and GMM LVL 115, 47k AA. He was running sword and board on this fight. He puts out more obviously with his 2HS. MNK is LVL 111, 16K AA. He has 2HB from ToV, MAG is LVL 113, 24K AA, BER is LVL 114, 15K AA and has TOV 2HB. ENC is LVL 114 and 22K AA.

I am always open to advise on what I am doing wrong or can do better. I play my SK and the others are Bots that use MQ2BER and MQ2MNK. The others just use .ini files that I have found here. Like I said I am still trying to locate a good bard one since I feel the bard will be better for DPS than the Enchanter.

*************EDIT*********** That MAG+PET is only the MAG I forgot to link the pet to him*********
MAG and PET Total 9164786 DPS 110419 Hits 574 Max Hit 309446 AVG Hit 15966
ClassTotalDPSHitsMax HitAvg Hit
SK
9881401​
77806​
389​
281980​
25402​
MNK
8145418​
96969​
531​
332327​
15339​
MAG+Pet
6067246​
74904​
341​
309446​
17792​
BER
5556248​
103287​
238​
520138​
19529​
ENC
2321960​
36280​
34​
230106​
68292​
 

Sic

Nihil
Moderator
Joined
May 5, 2016
RedCents
13,473¢
Wymranar,
That is hard to say I can say that I am still not getting anywhere near the numbers that others are pulling. I run GAMPARSE v2.0.0.97 Beta and as of 10 minutes ago I just did the following in ST. This was non burn on A Guardian Golem. So a lot more hit points on mob and longer fight.

SK is Tier III TBL gear and GMM LVL 115, 47k AA. He was running sword and board on this fight. He puts out more obviously with his 2HS. MNK is LVL 111, 16K AA. He has 2HB from ToV, MAG is LVL 113, 24K AA, BER is LVL 114, 15K AA and has TOV 2HB. ENC is LVL 114 and 22K AA.

I am always open to advise on what I am doing wrong or can do better. I play my SK and the others are Bots that use MQ2BER and MQ2MNK. The others just use .ini files that I have found here. Like I said I am still trying to locate a good bard one since I feel the bard will be better for DPS than the Enchanter.

*************EDIT*********** That MAG+PET is only the MAG I forgot to link the pet to him*********
MAG and PET Total 9164786 DPS 110419 Hits 574 Max Hit 309446 AVG Hit 15966
ClassTotalDPSHitsMax HitAvg Hit
SK
9881401​
77806​
389​
281980​
25402​
MNK
8145418​
96969​
531​
332327​
15339​
MAG+Pet
6067246​
74904​
341​
309446​
17792​
BER
5556248​
103287​
238​
520138​
19529​
ENC
2321960​
36280​
34​
230106​
68292​
your melee toons you should be stacking Hdex as much as possible - for your zerkers having a good 2hander (i prefer the 36 delay 2handers), slot 5 Hdex as much as you can, and AAs you should be doing more dmg than that - i would check your /zerk missing and see if you are missing any skills/spells - and then you should start reading some of the zerker AAs to see if there are any key ones that you are missing. It is common for folks to miss needing to get dicho/dissident for the big deeps --- dicho/dissi paired with braxi is crazy dmg

Also ensure you have the "Masterwork Axe Components" for using all the zerker axe stuff.
 
Joined
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RedCents
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Sic,
My DPS was higher on my Monk and Berserker then earlier this week it seems like they dropped.
I have every disc for my Zerker except phantom assailant. I also have all of the Slot 5 augs from ST. I have conflagrant or better augs in all other 7s and I have Extra Planar in the type 13 just dont typically run power source. 2HB is the Lament Maul of Restlessness. 492/36
Braxi's Howl is 7/7
I have Dicho and Dissidant.
I have 500 Masterwork Axe Components and tons of axes.

I am open to any suggestions. Thanks for the help thusfar.
 

Sic

Nihil
Moderator
Joined
May 5, 2016
RedCents
13,473¢
Sic,
My DPS was higher on my Monk and Berserker then earlier this week it seems like they dropped.
I have every disc for my Zerker except phantom assailant. I also have all of the Slot 5 augs from ST. I have conflagrant or better augs in all other 7s and I have Extra Planar in the type 13 just dont typically run power source. 2HB is the Lament Maul of Restlessness. 492/36
Braxi's Howl is 7/7
I have Dicho and Dissidant.
I have 500 Masterwork Axe Components and tons of axes.

I am open to any suggestions. Thanks for the help thusfar.
if you are using new abilities but you haven't also ranked up your focus AAs you might be missing large % increases that those AAs give since how dbg does aa tiers - many of the 6/8 ranks don't impact the 111+ abilities
 
Joined
Jul 15, 2019
RedCents
50¢
I did check on everything everyone was saying.
This was in ST tonight as well.
This was Xalgoz the arisen. This was in BURN
ClassTotalDPSMax Hit
MAG+PET
8894241​
277945​
911508​
MNK
14741405​
398416​
1085630​
BER
9995850​
293995​
384515​
SK
8393281​
199840​
228333​
 
Joined
Jun 16, 2019
RedCents
269¢
@Paxzon @foromoro for my mage in group, I changed a few things and doubled his dps from 70k to 150k

-replaces the air pet with the water pet in SA_K’s ini (moar backstabzz)
-upgraded to the new emp minion ToV tier 1 earring
-maxed out conjurers synergy in the focus tab

I’m only at about 19k aa on my mage right now, so I’m sure I’ll see more improvement, but conjurers synergy and the ENC synergy have helped a lot

Right now my group is looking like:
WAR 113 35k aa, 144k DPS
MNK 111 23k aa, 108k DPS
MAG+pet 111 19k aa, 130k DPS
ENC 111 18k aa, 44k DPS
SHM 111 26k aa, 14k DPS

for the monk, masters synergy Maxed is very important. And remember for all these synergy aa’s rks 1-10 usually use 105 lvl spells, then rk 11 uses 110, and rk 12 uses 115.
 
Last edited:

whytdrumer

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RedCents
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Not sure if this was already mentioned but you could run the cleric using auto cleric outside the group and have them heal from outside the group. Then have a full group of DPS rockstars.
 

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