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News - EoK T1 renders all former RAID Expac armor obsolete (1 Viewer)

Razkle

Single-handedly keeping Daybreak in business
Joined
Mar 27, 2014
RedCents
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Bold statement but let me explain... my main tank, FULL Deathseekers Armor, Full set! no easy task! Put EoK Group T1 on him and the t1 group gear fully equipped is better! Yeah you lose about 400 HP but you gain in AC and the heroic stats are WAY better AND you can now have a FTP tank if you get the augs from my list....

SO think twice before you shell out for a raid geared anything that is not EoK raid geared, the t2 stuff is even 5% better then the group t1 stuff! EoK changes everything!

I will say the only things that were better were the non-vis by a fraction but if you get t2 group non vis it is the same as TBM raid gear! I am happy and sad at the same time about this news!
 
example Thulian Stalwart Shield vs Burnished Wurmscale Aegis

Sure it LOOKS like you lose out on AC but the Heroic stats and the hate generation proc you pick up FAR offset the Raid shield!

- - - Updated - - -

at some point I will cherry pick a few pieces of deathseekers to keep but overall, T1 group gear is quick and easy to get and you really don't need to go on old raids to get gear when you can loot rots from EoK
 
I think they're doing this purposely now to force people to buy the new X-pacs.

Never in history have they made group gear better than raid gear the previous X-pac
 
I think they're doing this purposely now to force people to buy the new X-pacs.

Never in history have they made group gear better than raid gear the previous X-pac

I agree... I was stunned by the offset! basically even Anchient cloak of flames is now useless, with Ancestrial Memories III on so much of the EoK gear!

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I will say this, I have 11 tanks and 6 of them will be FTP in EoK! Thanks DBG for saving me Kronos!
 
I would like to point out this is TANK ONLY! DPS takes a huge hit going from raid to group. The focus and heroic stats will drop your DPS a bit. I am parsing about 10k higher in TBM raid gear compared to EoK T1 group gear, but not tanking as well than in EoK group gear.

- - - Updated - - -

example Thulian Stalwart Shield vs Burnished Wurmscale Aegis

Sure it LOOKS like you lose out on AC but the Heroic stats and the hate generation proc you pick up FAR offset the Raid shield!

- - - Updated - - -

at some point I will cherry pick a few pieces of deathseekers to keep but overall, T1 group gear is quick and easy to get and you really don't need to go on old raids to get gear when you can loot rots from EoK

I'd also like to point out you are incorrect here. Secondary AC is the MOST important slot for AC and even 20 AC diffrence can be a game changer. That all said, get the Wurmslayer to replace the TBM primary... it is godly for tanking.
 
Expanding on this as well... Purity! Now most FTP players don't bother with Power sources, but with 110 Purity on an item and a good power source, you will see quite the bump on your stats.
 
I have to side with noob here , being one of the top paladins in game - EOK gear is not better for tanks then TBM raid gear - to much of mod lose , HP lose and Heroic lose , you lose way to much to gear - Granted - is damn near close to Equal stats not just there - Good FTP gear thou !

Aren't your mods maxed?

Ac is more important than HP and correct me if im wrong the AC on the T1 group gear is higher in EoK but it has like 800 less HP. The AC would make it better.

As noob pointed out though, AC is most important on shields no matter what becuase you gain 100% of the benefit of it. ALSO, some of your visible slots you gain a higher % of AC from such as Chest, gloves and I think arms give you a larger benefit than your other slots so put your highest AC augs in those slots



Also, the heroics you're losing are virtually useless too. If you have over 500 into a heroic you've already achieved pretty much the highest benefit you can from it. Heroic STAM being the most useful to just keep dumping points into, AGI practically loses usefulness post 500 as does Hdex which is the worst heroic stat for a tank hands down.

I am not sure how the rumor got started that Hdex was useful for tanks but with a little bit of research it really shows it's totally a melee DPS heroic.

Heroic AGI is definitely good but it has been parsed against heroic STAM and that was deemed better.

I can't find any of the threads atm but it's definitely a subject looking into if you're a tank still using Hdex/Hagi as your two primaries.
 
EoK T1 vs TBM Raid is close but add T2 in and the Raid stuff is just not up to the difference...
Rich (BB code):
Deathseeker's Frostfire Robe   

MAGIC ITEM LORE ITEM NO TRADE PRESTIGE INFUSIBLE
 Slot: CHEST
 Charges: Unlimited
 Purity: 75
 AC: 298
 STR: +35+11 DEX: +35 STA: +40+23 CHA: +45+20 WIS: +35 INT: +55+21 AGI: +45+20 HP: +4364 MANA: +4823
 SV FIRE: +65 SV DISEASE: +65 SV COLD: +65 SV MAGIC: +65 SV POISON: +65
 HP Regen +5 Mana Regeneration: +6 Clairvoyance: +95 Spell Damage: +66 
 Required level of 100.
 Effect:  Weave of Reclamation (Any Slot/Can Equip, Casting Time: 0.2)
 Recast Delay: 600 seconds, Recast Type: 16
 Focus:  Ethereal Skyblaze Fury
Rich (BB code):
Cohort's Frostfire Robe   



MAGIC ITEM LORE ITEM NO TRADE INFUSIBLE
 Slot: CHEST
 Charges: Unlimited
 Purity: 50
 AC: 314
 STR: +24+12 DEX: +47 STA: +45+15 CHA: +32+20 WIS: +17 INT: +32+17 AGI: +35+11 HP: +3870 MANA: +4280 ENDUR: +4280
 SV FIRE: +60 SV DISEASE: +47 SV COLD: +49 SV MAGIC: +61 SV POISON: +43 SV CORRUPTION: +1
 HP Regen +5 Mana Regeneration: +6 Clairvoyance: +54 Spell Damage: +45 
 Required level of 105.
 Effect:  Weave of Reclamation (Any Slot/Can Equip, Casting Time: 0.2)
 Recast Delay: 600 seconds, Recast Type: 16
 Focus:  Ethereal Skyblaze Fury
 WT: 4.7 Size: LARGE

Vs

Rich (BB code):
Selrach's Frostfire Robe   

MAGIC ITEM LORE ITEM NO TRADE PRESTIGE INFUSIBLE
 Slot: CHEST
 Charges: Unlimited
 Purity: 50
 AC: 334
 STR: +19+10 DEX: +46 STA: +32+19 CHA: +41+19 WIS: +26 INT: +31+19 AGI: +44+15 HP: +4140 MANA: +4575 ENDUR: +4575
 SV FIRE: +60 SV DISEASE: +49 SV COLD: +49 SV MAGIC: +64 SV POISON: +48 SV CORRUPTION: +1
 HP Regen +5 Mana Regeneration: +5 Clairvoyance: +61 Spell Damage: +58 
 Required level of 105.
 Effect:  Weave of Reclamation (Any Slot/Can Equip, Casting Time: 0.2)
 Recast Delay: 600 seconds, Recast Type: 16
 Focus:  Ethereal Skyblaze Fury
 
I've looked over the EoK tier 1 and tier 2 and for my boxes think it's great - but still not up to TBM raid gear for DPS use. Now as a tank who spends a great deal of his time on raids I have to say - at least for a paladin - I won't be trading in my raid gear for T1 or T2. Does it make a nice compromise hell yes - as a FTP character it will do wonders but not a single piece of raid gear I would replace with group gear and expect to improve my overall performance. Also, I'm not sure that the shield is a far example of what the average tank would use from raiding TBM - more likely Runed Flesh Shield of Boromas and there the comparison fails as the tank would loose 75 AC and the heroic stats are better. As for gear I love EoK group gear, I just wouldn't pass up a chance to get TBM gear if I didn't think I would soon have the opportunity to grab EoK raid gear.

Personal: Chanticleer said:
I have to side with noob here , being one of the top paladins in game

When I read that I found myself chuckling thinking what a small world it is - as I could have echoed that comment.
 
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On my warrior I only look at AC/HP and I would definitely use the EoK gear over TBM raid gear.

For most other classes I generally only look HP/MP (like my wizzies) spell damage is practically useless in this gam if you actually take the time to do the math for it you'll see probably .80% of your DPS comes from it on most casters and that's being generous.

Since TBM raid gear is prestige I think it's unfair to compare it to EoK T1 since that isn't prestige. From what I have seen though, the T2 raid gear is pretty much better for everyone, if what you're looking at is heroics as a basis of comparison stop using them when upgrading gear. They're honestly the worst thing to look at since they benefit you the least. Also as aforementioned a lot of tanks still think Hdex is useful and Hagi beats out Hstam.

I highly recommend you read this thread it breaks down all heroics mathematically - https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq/index.php?threads/tank-parses.231978/



I notice both you felt the need to express you're the best paladin in the game so you may not heed my advice which is why you should check out the thread and its math. Math doesn't lie. Here's a preview!

VTlnKOo.png

http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z253/goodurden/shielding parse 2016-05-31_zpsgxnexjsi.png

http://s189.photobucket.com/user/goodurden/media/Hagi parse 2016-05-31_zps18wvlgnf.png.html
 
here is 2 screenshots from the same toon, 1st with Deathseekers in every slot... (no augs) then with Cohort's in every slot(no augs)... on a SK
Screen Shot 12-21-16 at 01.41 AM.JPGScreen Shot 12-21-16 at 01.42 AM.JPG

Now, I am no Rocket Surgeon But 1 gear took me months to get the other about 30 minutes... AND the Cohorts is FTP making more EQ, More Fun!

And this example is just for the Cohorts, the T2 is a little harder to get and gives you way more!

- - - Updated - - -

ALSO keep in mind the Aug Slots, raid gear is 8 and 14 where group gear is 7 and 13.... way easier to get 7 and 13 augs... just sayin..
 
AC is KING! >> Melee mods (Dodge/Parry/Riposte and what affects them and what increases them like LDoN 8% dodge aug, alaran stone, etc) >> Heroic AGI followed by Heroic STA (Used to be Shielding in old times). >> Stance (Shield - Duel wield - 2 Handler)

All of the above applied to Warriors. Don't bother with anything else, but remember............... AC IS KING!
 
AC is KING! >> Melee mods (Dodge/Parry/Riposte and what affects them and what increases them like LDoN 8% dodge aug, alaran stone, etc) >> Heroic AGI followed by Heroic STA (Used to be Shielding in old times). >> Stance (Shield - Duel wield - 2 Handler)

All of the above applied to Warriors. Don't bother with anything else, but remember............... AC IS KING!

Heroic AGI get to 500 which is where you hit the "soft cap" - most benefits post 500 in a heroic STAT suffer massive diminishing returns. People actually have talked about it on these forums in the strategies section when talking about the TBM slot 5 heroic augs and which ones are the best.

Heroic STAM is better to dump EVERYTHING into because no matter what at the end of the day as a tank you should always expect to be getting smacked. Avoidance is good and all but what's most important is you being able to take a hit!

A dead tank isn't a good tank at all!
 
What's funny is, I still see Deathseeker going for millions on FV, with EoK T1/T2 going for a fraction of that price.
 
Heroic AGI get to 500 which is where you hit the "soft cap" - most benefits post 500 in a heroic STAT suffer massive diminishing returns. People actually have talked about it on these forums in the strategies section when talking about the TBM slot 5 heroic augs and which ones are the best.

Heroic STAM is better to dump EVERYTHING into because no matter what at the end of the day as a tank you should always expect to be getting smacked. Avoidance is good and all but what's most important is you being able to take a hit!

A dead tank isn't a good tank at all!

Would love to know where the math is on this stuff because I'd really like to know if I should shift priorities from full hAGI to partial hAGI and hSTA for my warrior. My SK is an easy decision... all hDEX, all the time!
 
Would love to know where the math is on this stuff because I'd really like to know if I should shift priorities from full hAGI to partial hAGI and hSTA for my warrior. My SK is an easy decision... all hDEX, all the time!

http://www.redguides.com/community/showthread.php/43578-TBM-Group-Gear-Explained

Is one of the threads on here. If the math isn't entirely in there it is in the other thread I linked: https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq/index.php?threads/tank-parses.231978/

Essentially for tanks Hdex is useless, slightly more useful for hybrids but I still do Hagi to 500 and the rest into Hstam on all of my tanks. I only get dex when I don't have any other option on all of my tanks.


The shielding bonus isn't what you are using Hstam for, or at least not what I want it for, you're pretty much just getting Hstam for more HP because post 500 Hagi it just totally drops off in effectiveness (or so I have read in numerous places, both of the threads I linked people say the same things). I've noticed a massive difference on my tanks after all my slot 5s being STAM oriented and switching most of my augs over to AC/Hstam augs
 
I tend to build my characters around the following mentality:

Caster DPS - Get as much mana and health as possible to survive AoEs and to pew pew as much as possible
Healers - Get as much health as possible that way you don't die, cause if your healer dies you mine as well just wipe it half the time
Tanks - Get as much health as possible that way you don't die... For similar reasons =P

I am foolishly unlucky in games so I tend to stray away from all luck oriented mechanics. I get them where neccessary to a point but tend not to focus directly on them. You'll honestly get 500 hAGI just from slot 5s these days on top of the slot 7s you practically have to use since there aren't enough of 1 heroic type augs. That said, I just gear all my tanks flat out heroic stam wherever I possibly can
 
I think the one difficulty here is that it is difficult to get a parse for raid parsing. The test dummys that hit back can't get ramped up to simulate raid mob abilities. Mobs were given heroic strikethroughs which in TDS were basically making the benefits of the heroic stat stacking difficult to get over the threshold (some of that would have/may have changed post TBM augs).
 
I think the one difficulty here is that it is difficult to get a parse for raid parsing. The test dummys that hit back can't get ramped up to simulate raid mob abilities. Mobs were given heroic strikethroughs which in TDS were basically making the benefits of the heroic stat stacking difficult to get over the threshold (some of that would have/may have changed post TBM augs).

Well, when doing the math in the Daybreak Forums post that I linked, again for those lazy:

https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq/index.php?threads/tank-parses.231978/

The names of the mobs he uses in the parser are TBM Plane of Life mobs, not the test dummies. While yea they aren't raid targets, they are updated mobs so it is a lot more accurate than on a test dummy.
 
example Thulian Stalwart Shield vs Burnished Wurmscale Aegis

Sure it LOOKS like you lose out on AC but the Heroic stats and the hate generation proc you pick up FAR offset the Raid shield!

- - - Updated - - -



at some point I will cherry pick a few pieces of deathseekers to keep but overall, T1 group gear is quick and easy to get and you really don't need to go on old raids to get gear when you can loot rots from EoK


This is completely wrong. First of all the delta ac difference is huge on those 2 shields. Second these are shields, and shield AC works totally different than other slots. And heroics are completely 2ndary compared to AC values for tanks in the first place.

The one thing I'd point out is to make sure you use a hStr type 5 augment in the shield slot.


For further reference, see this post:

https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq/index.php?threads/ac-vs-acv2.210028/#post-3078126


Also see the SireneFippy data that LurkMcGurk referenced above, based on parses SireneFippy has done, I've gone with hAgi augments on all my toons including casters, because there is noticeable difference in avoidance. I am steering away from hStam well frankly mob dmg is only going to get worse. Say you get enough hSta to up your melee shielding another 10%. If a mob is hitting for 130k (i.e. some EoK namers, you are only negating 13k dmg, how is that helpful?) Completely avoiding the total 130k dmg (i.e more hAgi) is more beneficial.

Also, as LurkMcGurk stated, spell damage is fucking useless, I laugh at all the people going for that stat. If you are that worried about your dmg, make sure you are using type 3 augments for your relevant spell as that is not additive dmg its "before crit" dmg meaning its multiplicative by adding to your base dmg vs "after crit" dmg which is additive after the raw crit dmg is taken into account e.g spell dmg mod2.

Its more important to make sure you are using Ancient Hedgewizard Brew or enc Mana Reiterate line over some shitty spell dmg mod2 stat, as you will get far more dps out of those spells.
 
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This is completely wrong. First of all the delta ac difference is huge on those 2 shields. Second these are shields, and shield AC works totally different than other slots. And heroics are completely 2ndary compared to AC values for tanks in the first place.

The one thing I'd point out is to make sure you use a hStr type 5 augment in the shield slot.


For further reference, see this post:

https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq/index.php?threads/ac-vs-acv2.210028/#post-3078126


Also see the SireneFippy data that LurkMcGurk referenced above, based on parses SireneFippy has done, I've gone with hAgi augments on all my toons including casters, because there is noticeable difference in avoidance. I am steering away from hStam well frankly mob dmg is only going to get worse. Say you get enough hSta to up your melee shielding another 10%. If a mob is hitting for 130k (i.e. some EoK namers, you are only negating 13k dmg, how is that helpful?) Completely avoiding the total 130k dmg (i.e more hAgi) is more beneficial.

Also, as LurkMcGurk stated, spell damage is fucking useless, I laugh at all the people going for that stat. If you are that worried about your dmg, make sure you are using type 3 augments for your relevant spell as that is not additive dmg its "before crit" dmg meaning its multiplicative by adding to your base dmg vs "after crit" dmg which is additive after the raw crit dmg is taken into account e.g spell dmg mod2.

Its more important to make sure you are using Ancient Hedgewizard Brew or enc Mana Reiterate line over some shitty spell dmg mod2 stat, as you will get far more dps out of those spells.


Going avoidance is a mistake because its a failure to understand the game. These guys do these parses but ignore the simple fact you can stack avoidance all you want but you will eventually get hit and get hit hard. What use is avoidance if the AEs one shot you ? or the named one rounds your tank ? Going hagi on casters can work if you don't have mana issues on them casters. Its like heroic agi you want the hp to withstand the big hit after that you can go agi. With casters you want the mana to have no downtime after that you can go agi.

These guys can theorize all they want with parses. I have multiple tanks of each class with raid gear, group gear heroic dex,sta,agi augs. I know what ones tank better.
 
example Thulian Stalwart Shield vs Burnished Wurmscale Aegis

Sure it LOOKS like you lose out on AC but the Heroic stats and the hate generation proc you pick up FAR offset the Raid shield!

- - - Updated - - -

at some point I will cherry pick a few pieces of deathseekers to keep but overall, T1 group gear is quick and easy to get and you really don't need to go on old raids to get gear when you can loot rots from EoK

Am i missing something here. With the 2 links i see the raid shield being far superior on all important tanking stats. The proc is cool but do warriors really have agro issues?

Raid - 390 AC - 20 Hdex - 58 Hsta - 23 H agi
Group - 325 AC - 19 Hdex - 46 Hsta - 19 Haig
 
News - EoK T1 renders all former RAID Expac armor obsolete

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